Jump to content

Amping the brass line


  

211 members have voted

  1. 1. We've amped the pit to allow for more subtle technique, we've amped some soloists to better balance with the rest of the corps. If corps started miking the entire brass line to improve balance, allow for better technique, etc, would you support...

    • Sounds like a great idea! I think it would improve the experience for me.
      4
    • If corps want to try it, more power to them.
      25
    • I would support it if better equipment (PAs, mixers, mikes) were used.
      11
    • I would complain about it, but let's be honest, I'm not going to stop going to shows because of it.
      86
    • Terrible idea! It would bother me so much, I think I would stop going to shows.
      85


Recommended Posts

In ten years brass "tracks" will be pre-recorded and corps will add 80 new guard members.  DCI will resemble a big flag show in North Korea; basically WGI percussion and guard on a football field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, trumpetcam said:

I think you are misinformed about SCV. their whole concept is using a 12 person virtuoso ensemble as an additional group that adds another level of sophistication. If you think they carry the sole level of technique in the show, your obviously not paying attention at all. Do you also realize this small group does not even play the entire 2nd or most of 3rd production of show? In fact, SCV is playing most of the show with 64 brass, several times with 52 brass as some push props if key moments.  I think to make a blanket statement when you don't really know the facts is dangerous to the kids. I don't think any of us love amplification, but given modern staging and drill demands, it's necessary at times. If you don't think they are playing real meat, go watch a brass rehearsal and come back with actual information. I think you'd change your tune pretty fast. There is a reason they are in the mix for best brassline, field judges can barely hear small group down there. Plenty of good stuff in their show if you choose to open your ears. Same for bluecoats, Phantom and Blue Devils.

BD, however, does mike the whole hornline which is why it always sounds so clear and right in rhthe mix. BD is very talented, but have always used microphones very well too. Smart design and taking advantage of current rules. Like it or not, that's the game.

I haven't slighted the "kids" who march in SCV (I put it in quotes because I myself am of the "age-out" age). By saying they are using the most talented to be miced, I am by no means saying the rest are untalented. Those are words you've put in my mouth. And I do know how to read score sheets, so I'm well aware that SCV's hornline is performing well (though I find their harsh sound this year to be a bit unappealing but that's a different topic). 

 I am criticizing the design which I do find to be taking it too far with regards to electronics. I use "morally" wrong because of the deception. Had they kept that 12 person ensemble standing on a prop or in the front, I wouldn't have an issue. But by hiding them within the ensemble, I find it to be deceptive, no matter for how many movements it's being done. It's fine if you disagree. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, ThirdValvesAreForWimps said:

In ten years brass "tracks" will be pre-recorded and corps will add 80 new guard members.  DCI will resemble a big flag show in North Korea; basically WGI percussion and guard on a football field.

No Drum Line necessary either. Just use the pit and a mix board. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

I haven't slighted the "kids" who march in SCV (I put it in quotes because I myself am of the "age-out" age). By saying they are using the most talented to be miced, I am by no means saying the rest are untalented. Those are words you've put in my mouth. And I do know how to read score sheets, so I'm well aware that SCV's hornline is performing well (though I find their harsh sound this year to be a bit unappealing but that's a different topic). 

 I am criticizing the design which I do find to be taking it too far with regards to electronics. I use "morally" wrong because of the deception. Had they kept that 12 person ensemble standing on a prop or in the front, I wouldn't have an issue. But by hiding them within the ensemble, I find it to be deceptive, no matter for how many movements it's being done. It's fine if you disagree. 

I greatly respect your opinion, but where you think deceptive, I think innovative. Having an extra brass ensemble weaving musically with a brassline proper while NOT having to stand on a prop in front the whole show IS the point. Anyone can do that, but move them across a field in any form or drillset and still have them interact as a totally different ensemble, now that's a new approach for our activity.  It's light years harder to achieve and coordinate, hence frustration when some say it's cheating. I see both sides of the discussion having been a judge and educator in this activity for many years. 

Ultimately, getting balances right so it's not an amplified contest between corps is important and the responsibility of designers and staff to not overuse or abuse this technique. Totally agree with you on this.

Edited by trumpetcam
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is definitely something of an arms race. There are a lot of competitively hungry groups in DCI right now. If you can score better by micing a small ensemble, groups are going to do exactly that. After SCV gets a medal and a great brass score this year, there will be a bunch of others next year.

For many people, the sound of a big acoustic brass line is a fundamental part of the identity of DCI. But there's nothing in the adjudication that specifically rewards it. If you were just concerned about maximizing score, you'd amplify an awesome 16 person brass line and put more GE-generating guard members on the field. I'm sure someone is going to try it in the not very distant future.

If that's not what the corps collectively want, they and the new Artistic Director are probably going to have to make rules/scoring changes.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

or better yet, mike all of your horns (or just your best players horns) for the greatest impact, and get the higher GE horn score. The corps are going to have to look at this and adjust the rules accordingly.  ie...  Otherwise, it is not a level playing field.  the question is:  what should be the parameters of when, how many, mikes can be  used on horns?  (ie... to be used simply for soloists or part of a small featured ensemble of 6) Also, use of pre recorded horn samples needs to be looked at...otherwise, just hit the button at the big impact moments for added oomph and impact, or not play at all.  Secondly, if the sound board is the way of the future, then it needs to be judged accordingly.  I was at the DeKalb show this past weekend where the Cadets singing, as well as other acoustics, could not be heard up high due to a failing sound board.  why do corps seem to be rewarded when the sound board works, but not docked when it doesn't?  if we are going the electronic rout, then the electronics need to be judged as well.

Edited by brians
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said:

This is definitely something of an arms race. There are a lot of competitively hungry groups in DCI right now. If you can score better by micing a small ensemble, groups are going to do exactly that. After SCV gets a medal and a great brass score this year, there will be a bunch of others next year.

For many people, the sound of a big acoustic brass line is a fundamental part of the identity of DCI. But there's nothing in the adjudication that specifically rewards it. If you were just concerned about maximizing score, you'd amplify an awesome 16 person brass line and put more GE-generating guard members on the field. I'm sure someone is going to try it in the not very distant future.

If that's not what the corps collectively want, they and the new Artistic Director are probably going to have to make rules/scoring changes.

The 'competitive' aspects of all electronics and amping which are damaging to the activity are two-fold.

1) Integrity... I have stated from the first inception of electronics in this activity that the true abomination, the one which is to me unforgivable, is not their use but that an 'adult staff member', sometimes a professional engineer, is manipulating live real-time scoring outcome. A situation where the adult staff are supposed to only instruct during rehearsal, then are to to step aside and only have the youth members affect live scoring. And by the way, this can easily be resolved by requiring the board person to be a youth of age listed as part of the 150 members on the field; recruit recording engineering majors and have the adult pros on staff train them on live mixing!! And...

2) Financial... mics, cords, boards, amps, other electronics all increase the production costs for a multitude of corps which cannot keep up fiscally in order to stay competitive; this is supposed to be a 501c3 youth non-profit activity not a push into the professional competitive arena.

Edited by Stu
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...