Catan Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 You do realize this show was in a DOME right??? Sounds are bouncing all over the place so a lot of things are distorted. I can play for you our show in the alamo dome in 2000, and it sounds terrible compared to what it sounds like outdoors. Hit me up with a PM and I'll send you a link to a show that was outdoors and trust me, the "goo" isn't as bad as you think. Plus, you did watch the show on the FN. It's a little different when you hear it live. Not to burst your bubble, but I saw the show live and the goo with Cadets was pretty bad. I did not hear the tubas at all the entire show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 As for amplifying the pit, I've understand those arguments and disagree with them, because they remove the challenge of creating a big sound unaided outdoors. I mean, a high jumper would clear a much taller bar using a trampoline, but would it really be an improvement? Great analogy. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I just watched the Cadets performing at San Antonio via Fan Network. I must say this is a really great show EXCEPT ... why do they feel the need to assault our ears with that thunderous goo (aka electric bass)? It is very disturbing to me. Anyone else notice this problem? The imbalance is terrible. This has been a problem for them since electronics began but this year I really want to enjoy their show and it's tough. Oh well ... flame away. yaaaawwwwwwwwwn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DITD Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I appreciate what you are saying Mondo and agree the kids work their hearts out as they have every year from time immemorial, but please ask yourself, is there a point in the future where one last change would be the spark that might drive you away from the activity? Would woodwinds do it? Laser light shows? Perhaps you're up for anything, but most people have a line they are not willing to cross. Mine was electronics and I saw my last DCI show 6 years ago because of it (I have still gone to local open class shows to support those corps, and a few DCA shows in that time). Judging from the comments I've seen on DCP and the conversations I've had with drum corps folks from a few generations, I'm not alone. "Stupid" is the adjective I seem to hear most when electronics are discussed. I'm giving it one more chance but I have to be honest, I'm a little skeptical. I'm trying to go in with an open mind. I understand your sentiment. I started watching drum corps in high school in the mid 90's, and to me, the style of design and corps identity that was going on at that time will always be "it" in my heart! But like so many art forms in the humanities (if you'll humor me to classify drum corps as such), it will not stay the same. From medieval times to baroque, baroque to classical, classical to romantic, romantic to neoclassical, neoclassical to contemporary, contemporary to dodecaphony, 12 tone to computer music (ack!), and finally arriving at our current genre of wind band composition (summarized), music has come a long way! And it hasn't been with out its growing pains. Think Stravinsky riots - "Rite of Spring." Listeners weren't on board. If only there were discussion forums around then and what would be posted! The reason I include drum corps with that of music's journey, painting, sculpture, and theater is because it is still created. The best minds of our activity a viewing the canvass of a drum corps show in an aesthetic capacity. They are looking to push the boundaries of what is acceptable in the chances that something beautiful can be realized! Now along the way, they will certainly upset those who don't want to see change. But this is why new ideas are getting passed, and it's bigger than just George Hopkins. It's not that they want to ruin an already great thing, but have the opportunity to discover and create. Synthesizers are still being figured out. How to achieve balance and tasteful blend is not quite there yet. But arrangers like the added color palate! Notice how some show designers tried out voice over for a few years. . .just to try it! It is all but gone from the activity now. Things will be introduced----improved----if they don't pass the trial----phased out. UNTIL yet another corps or designer has what "they think" is a fresh take on voice over, and will try again. I know you don't want it to move this way. I love my 1995 Dci Finals VHS tapes. But as artists = drill designers, music arrangers, & program coordinators. . .it will not stay the same as En Fuego, The Planets, an American Quintet, Birdland, etc. This is drum corps civil revolt to "Stravinsky's Rite of Spring!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 From medieval times to baroque, baroque to classical, classical to romantic, romantic to neoclassical, neoclassical to contemporary, contemporary to dodecaphony, 12 tone to computer music (ack!), and finally arriving at our current genre of wind band composition (summarized), music has come a long way! This is a really great post! It seems a shame to snip most of it but the sentence I quoted above contains the salient issue in my point of view - specifically, where you say "computer music (ack!)" From this I take it you don't buy computer music records, go to computer music concerts, but you are clearly a lover of music. This is just something that has no great value for you. Not all evolutionary branches are good, just ask Australopithicus.... Well - I love music too, and I'm a lover of drum corps, but electronics are a bridge too far for me. I've hung in there with many, many changes since I became involved back in the late 1960s, but I can't swallow this one. I'll see if I still feel the same way when I get home from Allentown. I don't know anyone who is a fan of computer music, and if the changes keep going on their current track, the same may soon be true for DCI. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DITD Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 This is a really great post! It seems a shame to snip most of it but the sentence I quoted above contains the salient issue in my point of view - specifically, where you say "computer music (ack!)" From this I take it you don't buy computer music records, go to computer music concerts, but you are clearly a lover of music. This is just something that has no great value for you. Not all evolutionary branches are good, just ask Australopithicus.... Well - I love music too, and I'm a lover of drum corps, but electronics are a bridge too far for me. I've hung in there with many, many changes since I became involved back in the late 1960s, but I can't swallow this one. I'll see if I still feel the same way when I get home from Allentown. I don't know anyone who is a fan of computer music, and if the changes keep going on their current track, the same may soon be true for DCI. Fair enough. The journey of fine arts shows that when the boundaries of creating get pushed to the threshold, they trend back to what is comfortable. My professor used to relate this to the double helix of a DNA strand. It will be intriguing to see how the activity accommodates and reacts to the assimilation of electronics. In time, I think it will either be balanced tastefully or phased out as the double helix once again reboots itself. My take on it is that in understanding the grand scheme of why they are making these choices (though I don't necessarily agree), it helps me to appreciate. I'm making the 8 hour drive from Tampa, FL to ATL and psyched. Hopefully you'll find enjoyment in the performances. Some of these teams are just incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Lol he's not chasing fans away. Obviously those fans who left have already made up their minds well before things like that were said. and many are still on the fence, and it seems complaintsare growing even from those tolerant of electronics. there has to be a middle ground, but yet time and time again, it's the fans being asked to deal with it. sorry not every seat in the house is near the judges. if a fan pays $75 to sit on the 35 down low, they shouldn't have to suffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Interesting analogy on the DNA strand. I'm driving about the same to Allentown, with just a little more trepidation than you . But I won't argue for a second over the talkent level of the members. It's off the chart nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer5485 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Have you viewed any of the other shows from San Antonio? I actually thought the Cadets had one of the less obtrusive thunderous goo. Try viewing/listening to Bluecoats, Cavaliers, Blue Stars, or Spirit. Ummm, Cavaliers are one of the only corps that doesnt supplement the brass sound with an electric or synth bass. I even commented to the people I was watching the show in San Antonio with that I noticed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Now along the way, they will certainly upset those who don't want to see change. I'm always a little saddened when the argument for electronics comes down to "change happens, so stop complaining!" Is that the best you can come up with? Change isn't always for the better. Synthesizers are still being figured out. How to achieve balance and tasteful blend is not quite there yet. But arrangers like the added color palate! The whole charm and challenge of drum corps is the limited options. Corps are still pretty reserved in their use of electronics so far, but it's growing every year, and there's nothing in the rules limiting the expansion of the synth ensemble. I fully expect to see corps across the spectrum rely more and more on synth to fill in for weak spots in their brass lines and to clean up messy execution to the point that we no longer recognize the sound of a naked brass ensemble. An example from this year: Blue Stars had two obvious brass solo moments in their show that they just gave over to a synth. Maybe they wanted to match the sound of the song they were adapting originally (a bassoon solo was one of the sections), but the solo was totally challenge-free on the synth (at the cinecast, they did a closeup on the player for this solo, who was playing a tiny MIDI controller planted sideways on his marimba, to give you some idea of the demand involved), but would have been a real performance coming from a brass player. I have to assume they got enough feedback from hater fans like me who hate all change to rethink the decision because they've since turned one of the solos over to a bari who does a fantastic job. Thank goodness! How much better an experience for him and for the audience! So complain away folks! Don't let up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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