JulesBry Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Wait a minute - I thought polls are never reliable on this stuff? One of my basic rules (learned from Statistics 101 in college) is, "never trust statistics". However, if DCI wants to go through all of the trouble to publish results of a poll that proves I'm wrong, I'll submit to it. Because either they are so deadset on what they're doing that they're willing to fake a poll despite the facts or the truth is that I'm really in the minority. Either way, I'm not going to win the argument. Until then, though, I'm not giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hup234 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Golden Age? Daniel, the term refers to the 1920-1980 period of greatest participation (some estimates say as many as 1,000 corps were active) with numerous nearby contests each weekend and maximum audience attendance. Thanks for your interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hup234 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 'MikeD' wrote: "Where are the corps to join this new association?" The implication was that the smaller, struggling units should take control of their own destiny. By readopting the basic, easy and proven-successful All-American D&BC Assn. rules rather than trying to match the DCI system of impossibly-expensive and complex programs with few resources, local membership should increase exponentially with inexperienced, trainable area recruits. "No such thing. Ticks were just as subjective as today's system...maybe even more so. Was the event a tick or not? Did the event deserve a group error? If so, how many tenths?" That's not so. The tick system, while far from perfect, registered errors, except in the one opinion class of General Effect. Today, it's all opinion right across the board. 4. Allow all G bugles, from open to three-valve, to allow for inexperienced recruits to more quickly learn and for more experienced players to continue being challenged. "Those horns are allowed in DCI...why ANY corps would want to use them would be the issue, IMO." Please re-read the paragraph. I said that the whole point of G bugles is that it is easy to learn to play them and because of that, to recruit new and inexperienced members. In addition, they are far less expensive to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Please re-read the paragraph. I said that the whole point of G bugles is that it is easy to learn to play them and because of that, to recruit new and inexperienced members. In addition, they are far less expensive to buy. This is very interesting. I'm a drummer and never played a horn, but this is the first time (ever, I think) that I've heard someone say that Bb horns are HARDER to learn than G's. I thought one of the major points of Bb was that they made it easy for HS students to transition to corps. Are you saying the young kids would learn on G's then transition to Bb in middle or high school? This is an honest question. Do you think many horn pros would agree with you that kids learn better on G horns? (It's entirely possible that I missed an entire discussion here on the subject. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 'MikeD' wrote: "Where are the corps to join this new association?" The implication was that the smaller, struggling units should take control of their own destiny. By readopting the basic, easy and proven-successful All-American D&BC Assn. rules rather than trying to match the DCI system of impossibly-expensive and complex programs with few resources, local membership should increase exponentially with inexperienced, trainable area recruits. 1) Corps do control their own destinies. 2) Why would a successful DCI corps ever want to give up what it has built for an inferior product? Who would join such a group???? If not one of those corps, who??? Where are all of these corps just waiting around for someone to start such a circuit? 3) Why does it matter where members come from? Its great that Surf can draw primarily local HS-aged kids and succeed...just as it is great a top performing corps can draw from just about anywhere and also achieve success. There are no 'bonus points' for being local. If a corps does want to remain local, they can do as the Cadets2 will do next year and compete in DCA. "No such thing. Ticks were just as subjective as today's system...maybe even more so. Was the event a tick or not? Did the event deserve a group error? If so, how many tenths?" That's not so. The tick system, while far from perfect, registered errors, except in the one opinion class of General Effect. Today, it's all opinion right across the board. What was and was not an 'error' was a 100% subjective decision on the part of the judge. That is what the term 'tolerance' means...deciding what level of performance would result in one or more ticks being assigned to a particular moment in a show. I judged in the Garden State Circuit in the mid/late 70's, and for a while the term 'National Linear' was the order of the day...we were supposed to judge every corps by comparing it to the very best...even the little beginners...our tolerance level and subjective decision as to what constituted and error set the bar at a certain level. That changed in short order, as scores on many sheets were well into the LOW single digits for every corps at a GSC show. We were told to modify that and adjust our tolerance so as to not penalize the small corps by comparing them to the Blue Devils...what we decided was to be an error was then adjusted...totally subjective. Then there was the group ticks...did an event generate a number of ticks...and if s, how many? Totally subjective. 4. Allow all G bugles, from open to three-valve, to allow for inexperienced recruits to more quickly learn and for more experienced players to continue being challenged. "Those horns are allowed in DCI...why ANY corps would want to use them would be the issue, IMO." Please re-read the paragraph. I said that the whole point of G bugles is that it is easy to learn to play them and because of that, to recruit new and inexperienced members. In addition, they are far less expensive to buy. A G-bugle is not easier to learn than a Bb/F horn. As to prices, I think you will find that G horns are not cheaper. Don't use list prices as your guide...only the actual purchase price matters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And in first place~ Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 More fan friendly corps to start with. Maybe a corps with the intestinal fortitude to dump the traditional theme show and move in a new direction. A better tour schedule would help. They now focus on regional shows and most of us who do not live nearby cannot attend unless we are rich. The same cities get the big shows year after year. I will not drive hours and hours to see a show. Basic economics comes into play. Pittsburgh has had a show for years and years and yet the lineup lately has been less than attractive. No disrespect to the corps there intended, either. Plus the fact that Pittsburgh (Baldwin) has had their show at the beginning of the tour for at least the last two years. And....less people who have attitudes. I lurk in here and see so much arrogance toward those who do not like the direction DCI has gone over the last decade or so. Many do not like amps and such but most still do drum corps some way, some how. Fans are divided and that does not help at all. Not that this has anything to do with saving drum corps, but when people get driven away their money goes with them. And corps need money more than ever. One thing I saw in here last night was a post by someone who said she wanted to march BD or PR but she could not afford it. Now what is wrong with that picture? I thought about that a lot and it really bothers me. When it costs too much for someone to be a corps member, something is drastically wrong. Since when is DCI for the uppity ups? If only I had the answer to the problem. I could list many more ideas but the "know-it-alls" in here would blast me for days. Let's just hope drum corps gets saved before the top 12 becomes the top 8. Which reminds me of their latest crazy idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard07 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 DCI died in the early '70s - why are we still beating this dead horse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Daniel, the term refers to the 1920-1980 period of greatest participation (some estimates say as many as 1,000 corps were active) with numerous nearby contests each weekend and maximum audience attendance. Thanks for your interest. There is actually more participation in marching music than ever before. It just is not all drum corps, as drum corps is a very inefficient and very expensive vehicle for teaching kids fundamentals of playing and movement. Also, feeder programs these days for are not really corps anymore. Take BD tenor line, for example. There is a cool little video bit out there that highlights the fact that 3 of the guys played together in high school, university and winter percussion programs... for several years. In their case, there were 3 layers or levels of feeder programs they went through prior to BD that were not corps. Once again, there are not a thousand corps out there today, not because it is some dark age or failure of the activity, but because they became obsolete, replaced by other groups that now perform the role that these corps once did in their respective communities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 In addition, they are far less expensive to buy. A major motivation for the move to allow Bb instruments was financial. One of the best moves ever, and one that was about 30 years overdue. Had this and other changes been made back in the 70's or even 80's... maybe a few of those corps that had folded due to financial pressures might still be around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 "No such thing. Ticks were just as subjective as today's system...maybe even more so. Was the event a tick or not? Did the event deserve a group error? If so, how many tenths?" That's not so. The tick system, while far from perfect, registered errors, except in the one opinion class of General Effect. Today, it's all opinion right across the board. wrong. the tick system was every bit as subjective as what we have today if not more. There were no clear rules defining what a tick was or wasn't. it was solely up to someones interpretation, and it varied wildly. Go look at some old recaps...you would have two percussion judges with wild differences in their scores. Given drill demand wasn't nearly like it is today, is it that realistic to say they couldn't hear the same thing? My dad still tells the story from one of his last years marching. he was in Line A, tuned real tight, so if there was an issue, it was clearly audible. Line b tuned darkier/muddier, and as a result it left a gray area as in "is it a tick or is it tuning". Judge A gave Line B the benefit based on the tuning, judge b wouldn't. So every show, Judge A had line B up, Judge B had line A up. so, sorry, it was quite subjective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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