danielray Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 yes drum corps is nichey. But think of how many of the changes have driven fans away. and maybe you see no mistakes, but there are several out there if you look with an open mind. Many presented in this thread and many others. Not all bugs are worth fixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 But bands haven't "replaced" corps. Perhaps you see them as interchangeable (and choose to ignore people who don't). But even if you accept the band = corps premise, your statement still isn't true. Ever since your marching days, the junior corps experience has been available to kids throughout the 13-21 age range, with no systemic geographic limitations. Competitive marching band is only available to high-school kids whose schools are among the 20% of schools that have a competing marching band. If your kid sees a marching band and wants to join, but your town's HS doesn't have a competing band, tough luck. You can't join the band in the next town. Bearing that in mind, for marching band to have literally "replaced" drum corps, the programs would have to be located in the towns where these drum corps used to be. But reality is quite the opposite. Marching band grew more prevalent in areas that historically lacked junior corps activity, like Texas, Indiana, and several Southern states. Even in the Northeast, the locations of competitive marching band programs don't correspond to past drum corps hotbeds. I don't see scores of competing marching bands hailing from Newark, Garfield, NYC or Boston. I do see lots of them in suburban towns that had no drum corps heritage. ahhhh logic Not logical at all. In economic terms, you're confusing a complimentary experience with a substitute experience. Other corps (the complimentary experience you're describing) was one alternative. As competitive marching band grew and came into more prominence, it was the substitute experience (which MikeD describes) that had a profoud impact on drum corps. Subsitution is when the ocnsumer (in this case, the prospective member) makes a choice that acknowledges the changing cirucmstances and options available. In the drum corps case, this reflected changes at so many corps and communities through the 70s as well as the advent of more polished and competitive high school marching band programs. Some teens opted for the traditional corps experience. Others choose the substitute experience in the high school band. The point is - and it's a good one - that some teens who otherwise might have joined local corps in the 60s chose not to in the 70s and 80s at least in part because their high school band experience was a sufficient substitute. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Subsitution is when the consumer (in this case, the prospective member) makes a choice that acknowledges the changing cirucmstances and options available. In the drum corps case, this reflected changes at so many corps and communities through the 70s as well as the advent of more polished and competitive high school marching band programs. Some teens opted for the traditional corps experience. Others choose the substitute experience in the high school band. How does one "choose" a HS band expierence other then do it/not do it? The student can't choose to have the experience of competing with a HS band if the band doesn't do it. Funny thing is in my corps back in the 70s we had members of competing and non-competing HS bands (still in HS at the time). The ones who competed were the ones talking more about how doing DC was so different from their HS band. Even funnier as a lot of the corps staff were from those competing schools.... Edited May 2, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) The point is - and it's a good one - that some teens who otherwise might have joined local corps in the 60s chose not to in the 70s and 80s at least in part because their high school band experience was a sufficient substitute. HH Some of this might be geographical based. In Massachusetts in the 60's there were almost as many participants in Drum and Bugle Corps as there were in High School Marching Bands. And In the city of Boston itself, and within a 20 mile radius of the City, there were far more marchers in Drum and Bugle Corps in the region than in the numbers that marched in city wide and region wide public High School Marching Bands. The 27th Lancers of Revere, Ma ( pop. approx 60,000) was larger than the City of Revere High School Marching Band in the late 60's, early 70's as well. The marching experience was far better for those that marched Drum and Bugle Corps in Massachusetts too, as the Corps competed both locally, regionally, and nationally. In the 60's early 70's, public High School Marching Bands did not compete in Massachusetts ( CYO Marching Bands did however ). They simply did parades, special events, and high school sporting events. Edited May 2, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frachel Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 If I didn't march when young and still proactively follow the activity, I would have almost no idea that Drum Corps even exists. None of my kids friends have ever heard of it, I've never seen promotion or advertisements for a show (I'm 30 minutes from Giants Stadium and 60 from Allentown) aside from the Fathom Events blurb at the movies when they run a promo for the theater show. The band members in the high school know about it and usually do trip to the show, but the kids that aren't in the band never hear about it in the same school. No clue how to address that issue, but obviously if people don't even know what the activity is (or that it even exists) it won't grow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) If I didn't march when young and still proactively follow the activity, I would have almost no idea that Drum Corps even exists. None of my kids friends have ever heard of it, I've never seen promotion or advertisements for a show (I'm 30 minutes from Giants Stadium and 60 from Allentown) aside from the Fathom Events blurb at the movies when they run a promo for the theater show. The band members in the high school know about it and usually do trip to the show, but the kids that aren't in the band never hear about it in the same school. No clue how to address that issue, but obviously if people don't even know what the activity is (or that it even exists) it won't grow. Some of this is geographical and age based as well. For example, it would be almost impossible for a native born person over age 60 in Boston Ma. or within a 20 mile radius of the City, not to have ever heard of Drum and Bugle Corps. They would have had to have been house bound throughout the decade of the 60's not to have known about Drum Corps in at least some small degree or fashion. All the media people, sports commentators, athletes, even Boston Pops, Symphonies knew of Drum and Bugle Corps. Composer and Conductor Arthur Fiedler of Boston Symphony and Pops Orchestra knew of the Corps.... so didn't Curt Gowdy sports announcer of the Red Sox. Everybody did in the region. JFK and all the pols did too. Edited May 2, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 If I didn't march when young and still proactively follow the activity, I would have almost no idea that Drum Corps even exists. None of my kids friends have ever heard of it, I've never seen promotion or advertisements for a show (I'm 30 minutes from Giants Stadium and 60 from Allentown) aside from the Fathom Events blurb at the movies when they run a promo for the theater show. The band members in the high school know about it and usually do trip to the show, but the kids that aren't in the band never hear about it in the same school. No clue how to address that issue, but obviously if people don't even know what the activity is (or that it even exists) it won't grow. This is very much on my mind right now. Here in Canada we don't even have the band programmes to give drum corps a little visibility. We are in the process of trying to start up a parade corps. How do you attract kids when they have no idea what it is all about? We not only have to "sell" the organization to kids and parents, we also have to sell the basics of the activity itself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) If I didn't march when young and still proactively follow the activity, I would have almost no idea that Drum Corps even exists. None of my kids friends have ever heard of it, I've never seen promotion or advertisements for a show (I'm 30 minutes from Giants Stadium and 60 from Allentown) aside from the Fathom Events blurb at the movies when they run a promo for the theater show. The band members in the high school know about it and usually do trip to the show, but the kids that aren't in the band never hear about it in the same school. No clue how to address that issue, but obviously if people don't even know what the activity is (or that it even exists) it won't grow. ding... ding.. ding.... Try marching in parades in a non-competing group (aka Alumni type corps) and hear comments like "What school are they with?" and "Must be alumni from a local school, some of them are old(er)". Then if someone asks and you respond with "D&BC" you usually get a blank stare. Edited May 2, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Not logical at all. In economic terms, you're confusing a complimentary experience with a substitute experience. No, I am not confused on that. If anything, perhaps some of the adults who were inspired to create more of what they experienced in drum corps chose corps-style marching band as the more economical $ubstitute vs. drum corps, given the nine-figure annual subsidy from our tax dollars that supports scholastic band programs. The kids, however, often haven't had both options to choose between, as my previous post points out. Other corps (the complimentary experience you're describing) was one alternative. As competitive marching band grew and came into more prominence, it was the substitute experience (which MikeD describes) that had a profoud impact on drum corps.Subsitution is when the ocnsumer (in this case, the prospective member) makes a choice that acknowledges the changing cirucmstances and options available. In the drum corps case, this reflected changes at so many corps and communities through the 70s as well as the advent of more polished and competitive high school marching band programs. Some teens opted for the traditional corps experience. Others choose the substitute experience in the high school band. The point is - and it's a good one - that some teens who otherwise might have joined local corps in the 60s chose not to in the 70s and 80s at least in part because their high school band experience was a sufficient substitute. I just saw the perfect response to this earlier today. Oh, look who wrote it.... you really ought to make a more credible argument. Because you've made assumptions that aren't valid, substituted conjecture for fact and generally missed the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Interesting that people get so caught up on semantics and what used to be.. what didn't. Only thing that matters right now is that currently is (though "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing") the present and future. Who cares if bands replaced local corps or didn't .... if there were mostly local corps vs. now touring. What is not IS NOW. If there was something that was in the past that isn't anymore... and it seemed pretty #### good/useful/reasonable... give a nudge and try to reintroduce, reencourage. To simply lament.. what is the point in it? I can't speak for anyone else, but I do not discuss the past merely to lament. As the cliche says, we learn from our past mistakes. Successes, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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