JimF-LowBari Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Now that my mystery horn's been identified [again, for me, *finally* after 40 years!] I assume that when the Air Force D&B was moved from the Washington DC area to the squeaky-clean, new Academy in Colorado Springs, all the instruments went with them, including those odd Holtons. And since Keith Markey became the horn arranger [and instructor?] at some point, I imagine he had the leeway to play one of those Holtons I saw him use in '68. Thought the Bolling Field (Wash, DC) corps was disbanded and the Academy corps was a totally different group. That's the idea I got from NanciDs history blog (article from DC News in there somewhere) and the fact that the Academy is for new recruits, not veterans like the Bolling Field members were. Equipment I have no idea.... wonder what happened to the bagpipes.... Dang.... was at our corps banquest last night and talked to one of the Bolling Field members. I could have asked.... Edited November 27, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) Thought the Bolling Field (Wash, DC) corps was disbanded and the Academy corps was a totally different group. Bolling was disbanded in 1963. The members were given three options: 1. Remain in the USAF, changing careers to some other specialty. 2. Relocate to the Academy corps. 3. An early discharge. Two notable men who chose #3 were Jack Meehan and Truman W. Crawford. Jack copped a scholarship to Casper College and began his long bugle instructing career with the Troopers. Tru moved to Chicago where the Royal Airs' director Sie Luyre set him up in a strorefront selling drumcorps instruments and arrangements. In 1968 he returned to the military, obtained a commission and took charge of the USMC Drum and Bugle corps for another three decades. The Academy enlisted corps flourished for a decade until it too was disbanded in the mid 70s. Their members then also had the option of MOS change or an early discharge from active duty. The "early out" guys completed their term of duty with various USAF Reserve units. The present-day Academy drumcorps is an extracurricular activity for the Cadets. The enlisted corps earned their pay. When not traveling they were out on the grounds all day long, parading the Cadets between classes. Edited November 29, 2011 by HornsUp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navillus WP Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 When I joined the 27th Lancers in OCT 69 as a contra, we played 5 KIng contras and one 3/4 size Smith. Three were on loan from the inactive Majestic Knights of Charlestown MA. All were converted with a G-F rotary kit - cobbled together, soldered & resoldered. Some of our baritones were Smith's. as well. It was almost impossible to keep the Smith Bari's and contra in tune from OTL to final fanfare. They often sounded tinny at triple fortissimo ("fff"), and tended to "blat" for the attack of a sforzando ("sff") unless you backed off, negating the intent that notation. The Smith Music Company of Chicago was owned by Glenn Smith. During the 50s, Smith Music Sales outsourced bugle assembly/construction to German-based firms and possibly other Euro-based fabricators, including circular French horn bugles and mellophone bugles. Glenn is noted for designing/dstributing a three-quarter size contrabass bugle during the late 1960s. Glenn C. Smith initially worked with the Grenadiers of Chicago during the 50s and started a business to contract bugle fabrication through other firms (initially through T.J. Getzen). Smith Music Sales eventually became a large dealer that boasted sales to 3,000 drum and bugle corpsm world-wide, eventually purchased the Holton/Ludwig bugle line. Smith has suggested that he was responsible for the creation of the French horn bugle; a small bore soprano he called the “Angel horn;” the flugelhorn, the bass baritone, a double sized contrabass, and the mellophone. Glenn Smith eventually entered the seminary and as of 1996 was a retired priest residing in Chandler, Arizona. Also, Getzen made a 31" contra in the mid-60's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlips Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I recall the first time I heard these "contras", in 1962 when I marched with St. Catherine's Queensmen and we competed against Garfield at Emmaus, PA. I loved that sound and what they brought to the party. Many others disagreed, predicting "the end of drum corps". My mentor, the inimitable John Sasso, put it all in perspective for me that night. "Hey", he said. "It hasn't been a bugle since they put a valve on it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Forgot the current Colorado Springs corps is not the one that was started in the early 60s. To add to my confusion USAF Academy was at the Forum show (aka Serenade in Brass) back in the late 70s/early 80s. Got to talk to some of those folks in the late 70s and really some hairy ###ed stories of their flights to PA and other places. Ahh baby contras.... Westshoremen had some in 1974 (don't know who made) until 1975 when we got full sized Olds Duratones (flat finish). Had some babies on the truck in 1985 but don't think they were ever used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The Holton OTS Bass-Baritone was only made for a year or two, and didn't get much exposure outside of the service corps. It's successor is the true missing link. This is the legendary Holton model 368 Bass-Baritone: The Holton bugle line, in the 50s, apparently was not agressively marketed. Few of them can be found on eBay, and I can only recall Midwest corps having them. The one above was rescued from a pawnshop in Kansas City. The .560 bore 368s produced a big bottom sound and in G-D-F tuning gave the following scale with very reasonable intonation: low G, Bb, low C, D, F, G, A, Bb, B, middle C, D, Eb, E, F, G .... This was very useful for writing basslines in the simpler bugle keys, also both valves together produced a set of partials which could be induced into functioning as C#s and F#s. The 368 was a much better musical instrument than the Getzen contra which had been cobbled together from a bunch of non-tuba parts. The built-in rotary made sense. The unbraced the rotary slide tube assembly did not. 368s were used by the Boys of '76, Commonwealth Edison, Skokie Indians, and the Kenosha Kingsmen seniors. Phantom Regiment inherited the Edison 368s, while others were carried by the St. Paul Scouts, Norwood, and the Cedarburg Thunderbolts. The best-known set was carried by the Cavaliers. They started in the late 50s with a few. Then in 1961 they replaced all their smallbell baritones with full bass-baritones.They used these right through the 1968 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Had to look twice at the rotor area, is there a stem on the other side to use the rotor? Haven't seen one yet but Diceman said he had a sop where you played the rotor by grabbing a stem with thumb and first finger. LOL, Mouthpiece looks like the Conn 3 that came with my pre-WWII Tenor Bari, the inward curve really sticks out. Note to self: get a pic on the 1920s trombone mouthpiece I have that looks even weirder (and re-Google the local manufacturer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I recall the first time I heard these "contras", in 1962 when I marched with St. Catherine's Queensmen and we competed against Garfield at Emmaus, PA. I loved that sound and what they brought to the party. Many others disagreed, predicting "the end of drum corps". My mentor, the inimitable John Sasso, put it all in perspective for me that night. "Hey", he said. "It hasn't been a bugle since they put a valve on it." "The End of Drum Corps" (As we knew it): There actually WERE articles in the drum corps periodicals of the day decrying the use of the "Contra Bass Bugle" and predicting the demise of the activity. Don Angelica, Garfield Cadets bugle arranger/instructor was moved to write a rebuttal to the doomsayers in Drum Corps News. Garfield Cadets may have been the "First" to actually use the then brand new Getzen Contra Bass bugles in competition. The corps competed in the mid winter Drum Corps News "Double Eliminator" standstill show at the Masque Theatre in Newark NJ (Placing second to Frank Dorrites St Cathrines Queensemen BTW). They carried two contra bass bugles that evening, in what may have been that instruments "Comming Out" poerformance. St Raphaels Buccaneers of Bridgeport Ct was the only other junior corps to carry one that season, "Debuting" THEIR Getzen contra a few weeks later at the DCN New Haven "Finals". The Hawthorne Caballeros and the USAF "Bolling AFB" drum corps had them by seasons end. The Getzen factory must have been cranking out contra's 24/7 over the winter as almost all the Eastern senior and junior corps had them for the season of 1963. This is a GREAT historical thread!!!!!!!!! Elphaba WWW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein456 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The BRONX KINGSMEN (1966, 67) had a complete set of Whaley Royce brass instruments and had several shoulder carried euphs. There are pictures of them playing these horns. This was a great idea in my opinion. The way the weight of the instrument is placed on the shoulder letting the "body ridged" handle the load, rather than the most unnatural, conventional, forward playing position. Especially when you have a very young, group of performers. Which I have... The weight of instruments, brass and percussion is a constant issue for my little guys. The weight issue is made most evident when you consider that marching band euphs are "chest held" (which I hope I never see in drum corps,) but none the less is a practical idea. I imagine this can be done with today's euphs by reconfiguring the lead pipe? Could it be that simple ? hmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nevermann Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) ...when you consider that marching band euphs are "chest held" (which I hope I never see in drum corps, Which depends, though, on the contemporary definition of "drum corps"... *cough, cough*... which now use trumpets... *cough*... and tubas... *choke*... amplifiers... *cough*... and now freak'n synthesizers!... *gaaag*, *kaaaa-HOOULP*, *ulp*... *gag*... *cough*. Edited December 8, 2011 by Jim Nevermann 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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