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Stu

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Once again, looking at the 990's are usually misleading, because the costs of running the corps and the costs of running activities to generate revenue are lumped together.

I said "budget".............

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I said "budget".............

I think you are missing the point.... though the organization might show several million in gross revenues and millions in expenses... a considerable portion of that goes to the cost of revenues.

If you extracted the costs of what it takes to run a top tier WC corps for a season, it is around $500k. Everything else is the cost of the engine to generate the cashflow to pay for it.

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I'm just saying there are many more factors than cost for the kids that do participate. Some of these have to do with proximity, instructors, friends, and so on. Money is not the real factor for kids in deciding where to do... it is mostly a factor for those where cost is a barrier for them.

Also, there is often a huge gap in mindset between many of the kids that simply audition and the kids that actually participate.

As usual, you are avoiding answering a simple question by utilizing snake oil spin. So, here we go again with take two. The overall financial cost to participate in a lower level corps and the overall cost to participate in a top winning corps are about the same. Simple question: Is the financial cost to attend Fresno State the same as Julliard, or does it cost considerably less to attend Fresno State than Julliard?

Edited by Stu

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As usual, you are avoiding answering a simple question by utilizing snake oil spin. So, here we go again with take two. The overall financial cost to participate in a lower level corps and the overall cost to participate in a top winning corps are about the same. Simple question: Is the financial cost to attend Fresno State the same as Julliard, or does it cost considerably less to attend Fresno State than Julliard?

It depends on who you are and your personal situation, because that is how tuition is priced. Very few students ever pay actual full tuition.

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It depends on who you are and your personal situation, because that is how tuition is priced. Very few students ever pay actual full tuition.

Fresno State

Tuition and Fees (per year)

In-state: $6,123

Out-of-state: $17,283

Room and Board

$12,000

Books and Supplies

$1,288

Other Expenses

$3,454

Total (per year) Cost of Attendance

In-state: $22,865

Out-of-state: $34,025

Julliard

Tuition and Fees

$33,630

Room and Board

$12,770

Books and Supplies

$711

Other Expenses

$4,789

Total (per year) Cost of Attendance

$51,900

Compared to Fresno State, Julliard is 35% higher per year for non-California residents and a whopping 56% higher per year for California residents. So, does this same type of *overall* cost differential (dues, housing, transportation, etc) occur between say the Cadets and a qualitative non-ring corps? Nope; it costs about the same to be with the Cadets as it does a qualitative non-ring corps. And that is why when a kid auditions for the Cadets or BD, and gets let go during camps, they quite often do not want to spend the same amount of money to then go audition for, and perform with, a lower level corps.

Source for Fresno State and Julliard costs: Collegedata.com

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Fresno State

Tuition and Fees (per year)

In-state: $6,123

Out-of-state: $17,283

Room and Board

$12,000

Books and Supplies

$1,288

Other Expenses

$3,454

Total (per year) Cost of Attendance

In-state: $22,865

Out-of-state: $34,025

Julliard

Tuition and Fees

$33,630

Room and Board

$12,770

Books and Supplies

$711

Other Expenses

$4,789

Total (per year) Cost of Attendance

$51,900

Compared to Fresno State, Julliard is 35% higher per year for non-California residents and a whopping 56% higher per year for California residents. So, does this same type of *overall* cost differential (dues, housing, transportation, etc) occur between say the Cadets and a qualitative non-ring corps? Nope; it costs about the same to be with the Cadets as it does a qualitative non-ring corps. And that is why when a kid auditions for the Cadets or BD, and gets let go during camps, they quite often do not want to spend the same amount of money to then go audition for, and perform with, a lower level corps.

Source for Fresno State and Julliard costs: Collegedata.com

The costs for me were exactly the same.

The point you are missing, in trying to compare universities to drum corps, is that like universities... kids choose where they would like to go for a variety of reasons.

For example... a few guys I marched with left BD for another corps and didn't even make finals. They went because they wanted to go where a former BD instructor was.

Another guy I marched with went on to march with another corps that placed much lower so he could be a soloist. He was a really great player, just happend to be at BD at a time when there were loads of monster soprano players... so he wouldn't have had a shot as soloist.

One guy went to a much lower placing corps because his girlfriend didn't make the cut and he wanted to march with her.

Again, motivation of where a kid decides to go is highly individual.... it isn't always about cost or ability.

Edited by danielray

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Compared to Fresno State, Julliard is 35% higher per year for non-California residents and a whopping 56% higher per year for California residents. So, does this same type of *overall* cost differential (dues, housing, transportation, etc) occur between say the Cadets and a qualitative non-ring corps? Nope; it costs about the same to be with the Cadets as it does a qualitative non-ring corps. And that is why when a kid auditions for the Cadets or BD, and gets let go during camps, they quite often do not want to spend the same amount of money to then go audition for, and perform with, a lower level corps.

I do agree with this, but your college analogy is not one I really agree with. Private and public universities operate under very different cost scenarios. Private schools, esp ones at the top, often have huge endowments that will provide financial assistance to any admitted student. The mantra in my area (I live near Princeton) is that if you can get accepted to Princeton you can go to Princeton. The published cost is irrelevant. It could cost less to attend Princeton than it would Fresno.

But...your basic drum corps point is spot on, IMO. Though...it is not always just a cost-based decision...edit: see Daniel's post.

Edited by MikeD

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I think you are missing the point.... though the organization might show several million in gross revenues and millions in expenses... a considerable portion of that goes to the cost of revenues.

If you extracted the costs of what it takes to run a top tier WC corps for a season, it is around $500k. Everything else is the cost of the engine to generate the cashflow to pay for it.

no,........I think you are missing the point,....................I said "budget" and "machine",..................you are making my point for me,...........it is very funny watching you argue with yourself,............

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,...........not sure where you are coming from,............but I am pretty sure you cannot even win a regular season WC show these days without a 2 million dollar budget,...........

no,........I think you are missing the point,....................I said "budget" and "machine",..................you are making my point for me,...........it is very funny watching you argue with yourself,............

Gary, you need to drop this line. Look at the 990's for the corps and you won't find a $2mm "budget" in any except 2, and one of those includes a full band competition program in their "budget", as well as an active community music program "machine".

You're beating this horse when the 990 data shows it's already been shot dead.

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Gary, you need to drop this line. Look at the 990's for the corps and you won't find a $2mm "budget" in any except 2, and one of those includes a full band competition program in their "budget", as well as an active community music program "machine".

You're beating this horse when the 990 data shows it's already been shot dead.

I said "machine", he said "engine",........... I see the dramatic difference now,........... :blink:

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