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How intense were rivalries?


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Andy, for a Jersey boy, it's obvious where my preferences lie, and they were world champs, but I experienced no less enjoyment from the Mass Corps. One can say that the rivalries overcame the music and performance. Never for me'

Kevin

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These are Class B and C tricks. Even the least significant of Class A corps know what the word "attention" means. The Boston Crusaders know what it means. They've shown what discipline can do with a lack of talent. Will you just stop and think what it will do with our abudance of talent?

Wow, that's quite a mouthful. lol.

FWIW, there were some pretty nasty and intense rivalries in the early-mid 80's as well. By around 1990 or so, most corps had morphed into the more "friendly rivalry" style we see more of these days.

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It surprises me that there has been no exchange on the NJ rivalries. SAC and HN/ Garfield had an intense rivalry and each was winning National Championships - VFW vs AL.

Would this thread include the brawls with St. Lucy's?

Well, it certainly was intense at times and yes there were a couple of instances where tempers overcame judgement(Union City '62), but beyond that I tend to remember the immense "RESPECT" we had for each other........on several occasions, the members of Sac actually came to Newark Airport to see us off on plane trips to the AL Nationals in 62 & 65 to wish us all Good Luck!!!(with an early version of the "GO EAST" chant)........ there was also one time in '66 that Sac thought we were so BAD(we were) that they turned they're backs on us as we passed going off the field at a contest at Newark Stadium. So it went both ways, but it was rivalry based on respect. I was gone from the DC scene for several years when Sac folded and I wondered if Garfield could survive without that intense local rivalry as it seemed such a huge part of our existence for decades.

I don't recall any brawls with Lucy's, that would've been a Boston thing.............Lucy's had an impact on the eastern power structure from '64-'68 and produced some very good corps with several great individual performances, but I don't think either Sac or Garfield saw them as the great rivalry, that takes more than just a few years of trading wins. From the HN/Garfield perspective. it was Sac locally, with The Cavies come Nationals time, although that started to include the Royal-Airs for the '62-'67 timeframe. Past Rivalries, St. Vinnie's, St Joe's of Newark............

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HN

Brawl stories came from a friend who marched SAC in the early 60s.

Vinnies and St. Joe's were great Corps (cousin was the Principal at St. Joe's). I think Vincent faded after 1960 and Joe's before that. Regretable losses, but history. Just ordred a CD with 1954 St. Joe. What a great Corps with Hy Dreitzer, Bobby Thompson, et. al.

Greatest rivalry competition I witnessed was in Fair Lawn. I think it was in 1960, but the Cadets 75 book says otherwise. My foggy memory says it was in July - relatively mid-season. Both SAC and GC scored 90s and only a tenth apart. Unheard of in that era and the National Champs didn't score in the 90s. Some might say it was scoring inflation by the judges, but I was there, and have never heard the intensity that these Corps displayed. (Some might say we're old fogeys talking about this era, but I still go to shows, buy CDs and DVDs. DC has evolved, but is still great)

Thanks for the history. Always very valuable.

Kevin

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At one point, at least on the East Coast, it wasn't far from street gangs with instruments.

I know some guys from one of 'the' senior corps in '75 that never went on the field unarmed...like guns and knives. Seriously.

At one of Bayonne's home shows in the late '70s, a couple walked into Boston's ranks, not knowing that Boston took that as a cue to start a brawl...The 'BAC's attacked the couple, including a pregnant woman, and were it not for the intervention of a couple of guys from Sky (who could have probably taken on the entire corps, since Sky was a notoriously tough crew BITD), it would have ended badly for the couple.

Boston was really a bunch of fringe-type nut cases bitd, and that had more to do with them not making finals in the late '70s than anything else...That changed, in the '80s, though, with new management, and a much healthier outlook and direction.

There's a story of legend involving the Bridgemen at the '69 Garden State Championships that involved a huge field brawl. Maybe one of my other fellow alums, who was there, could chime in.

The 'good old days' had a lot of elements that weren't really all that good...But the music was great, and that's the part I prefer to remember!

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HN

Brawl stories came from a friend who marched SAC in the early 60s.

You may want to ask your SAC friend Kevin to give his side of the story after the 64 Pittsfield (MA) Boys Club Standstill where a member of SAC came up to one of our bus windows, talked to a Crusader, then all hell broke out. SAC had won the AL Legion Nationals in 63, but Boston won the standstill by two points.

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You may want to ask your SAC friend Kevin to give his side of the story after the 64 Pittsfield (MA) Boys Club Standstill where a member of SAC came up to one of our bus windows, talked to a Crusader, then all hell broke out. SAC had won the AL Legion Nationals in 63, but Boston won the standstill by two points.

Hmmmmm, when did Boston NOT WIN the Pittsfield Sound-Off Show?(BTW, all the Jersey Corps just loved Bay State Judging)..........and Sac's '64 Corp was NOT that '63 Corp...that '63 Sac Corp with 27 horns was the BEST small Corp of all times! We were able to beat Sac only 2 or 3 times in '63......they were just phenomenal and yeah they had a bit of an attitude about it.....but hey, they were from Newark! what'ya expect?

My favorite show at Pittsfield?........the '65 Pittsfield Cavaliers Drum Solo, played in the dark with fiberglass snare sticks that were lit by batteries from within! 25 yrs later(in SoCal) I mentioned this to my wife's Boss, who then informed me that HE(Don McCoy) was their drum instructor that year!

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... of all corps? ... hmmm ... you almost sound offended ... :-) ... true, we came in 13th (tie with Racine Scouts) in Cleveland ... unfortunately, we missed finals because of the tabulation error with Garfield's M&M score ... we did however make finals at the WO ... no luck with the Sept 5th score ... I'll check my DCN's sometime to see if I can find it ...

:smile:

ps - for the record, the 64 & 65 Boston shows were my favs ... what a nice mix of musicality and difficulty ... bravo!

"Missing Score":

I don't have the "Numbers" but the September show that the Crusaders lost was at Pittsfield MA. The Chicago Cavaliers went past them by ONE TENTH of a point.

A bunch of us made the long haul up from CT to get one last look at the two National Contenders.

Elphaba

WWW

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I wouldn’t call it a rivalry, but at the 1970 CA State American Legion VK was convinced that the contest was theirs. In fact the rumor was that they had already had championship patches made. At retreat we were lined up right next to them. Before the scores were announced Gail walked up and down the horn line saying, “Put your mouthpieces in your fists; put your mouthpieces in your fists!” He really expected a fight might erupt.

In 1971, just prior to the VFW championships, suddenly the Trooper souvie wagon was parked at the hotel we were staying at. We were told the Troopers had heard that members of Boston had threatened to dress up as Indians and burn it down!

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Hmmmmm, when did Boston NOT WIN the Pittsfield Sound-Off Show?(BTW, all the Jersey Corps just loved Bay State Judging

This particular contest was judged by the "N.Y. chapter of the All American Association."

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