Jupiter Brass/Quality Control

[GeneralTsoChicken]

I have the same understanding, therefore there should be no complaints. But, there are, and that amounts to immature whining on the part of the soloist unless you have negotiated exceptions with the supplier.

That doesn't mean the soloist can't provide input on the quality of the instrument for future consideration.

But that doesn't answer all of the question. Suppose your star soloist wants to use last year's instrument and the Corps has changed to a new supplier. Why can't the soloist

use last year's horn?

Kevin

Some soloists do play on non-sponsored instruments. A certain corps trumpet player(s) picked up bach strads a few years back, for example.

[kickhaltsforlife]

I'll weigh in a bit.

I have not been a fan of any of the Jupiter lines I have heard. And I'm talking about the complete horn line product. What we hear when the whole line is playing. I do know, that the people who have played their low brass in drum corps have enjoyed playing them more than the other brands.

The best sounding horn line to ever play on Jupiter was 2009 Phantom Regiment. Their first year on the horns. And there was a noticeable difference from the sound of the the Phantom lines on the King horns. And the change was not a good one IMO. The high brass didn't jump off the field like it used to and the low brass lost it's huge deep dark sound, mainly provided by the King euphoniums.

Since 2009 though, I have never really been impressed by the sound of a Phantom Regiment horn line. They have had the volume, and they have had some awesome shows. But they just haven't been able to get that beautiful sound they got in 2008, or the sound in 2006 ballad (just to name my favorite horn line moment in the history of DCI).

That being said... can the change in sound really just be from the talent in the corps? Even the King lines year to year had different sounds to them.. because of players, writing, etc. Even Crown, the most consistent year to year since 2007(they switched from Kings to Yamaha in 2007) have a different sound each year.

Another point. Is it worth the price cut when your high bras has to work that much harder? Phantom's high brass has sounded rough since the switch. It sounds like they are trying really hard. And the fracks and cracks are way more abundant. I mean, a lot more than the horn factors into it. Talent, teaching, how well they march. But the horns definitely aren't helping.

Remember, that this whole post is just my perception of the Jupiter brass. It depends how valid you find my ears to be I guess. And also, I am talking about the sound of the whole line compared to others.

Also, I wouldn't go and say that the lines are complete crap. They do need to do a lot of work with the high brass. And I have heard of durability issues. And I don't like the sound.

[danielray]

Free instruments, does not "free" make.

I would venture to guess, many of these groups would have actually kept more money in the long run, had they forked out the dough and bought a Kanstul Bb line when they first came out.

The sponsorship obligations that come with these things come with numerous outside costs. In the case of some groups who have changed makers/brands 2 or 3 times, they have created a money eating system. They require rebranding of all of their materials, including trucks. They also require that certain obligations be met (sometimes concert series or factory visits) which eat up competetive corps time (in either rehearsal or performance)---sometimes corps drive a day out of their way to do these things, that's a lot of money. The corps also spend large amounts of time working kinks out of these instruments and getting them repaired, which is usually not funded by the sponsorship. The corps is also given the responsibility of getting rid of the old instruments. In some cases the sponsorship does not allow the corps to keep all of the difference. In the case of the early King Bb's, the corps were most definitely lucky to have broken even on the instrument itself when it was all said and done.

Had the corps broken down and bought the Kanstul line, they would have had a more reliable product, only had to rebrand their materials when other factors forced it (saving a lot of money, especially in 15-45k truck wraps), had instrument continuity (not spending time relearning the different instruments year in and year out---which equals better competative success), and since they wouldn't be selling them off, that time in office could be used to better facilitate the excellence of the corps (not wasting time trying to sell off instruments at cost).

Free candy when you have to pay for the dentist bill and diabetes medication, isn't free candy.

Fully depends on the corps, manufacturer and the deal structure.

If additional costs aren't covered... weak deal.

Kanstul horns were great in their time, in the context of what else was available at the time. Now there is stuff out there that is just as good or better. It is just too small of a company to be able to keep pace (unfortunate that they did not sell to a larger company some years back).

The corps I played with used to play Kanstul back in my day. Great horns. Now the stuff they play on is better and the current deal, though confidential, I can say is not even on the same planet as it was when they were playing Kanstul. Even if they got Kanstul horns for free, it wouldn't compare.

As for wrapping the trucks.. I think I am becoming more in favor of just plain, unmarked trucks. Just doesn't seem like a good idea these days to have a truck that screams "loads of expensive stuff inside".

[kickhaltsforlife]

One more thing, about the sound.

I do believe that is has a lot to do with how the horn line is taught. And how the book is written.

Just look at all the Yamaha lines. Crown, Cavies, Scouts, SCV, Cadets, Crossmen, to name a few. Do they sound the same? I think not.

However, I do feel like all of those lines have a little less work to sound good. Based on the sound quality of all the horns.

You also can't deny that BDs sound is worlds better since the switch to Kings, and the release of System Blue. They actually have a low brass sound now.

And I would put Jupiter above the Dynasty POS.

[TexasPRfan]

I'll weigh in a bit.

I have not been a fan of any of the Jupiter lines I have heard. And I'm talking about the complete horn line product. What we hear when the whole line is playing. I do know, that the people who have played their low brass in drum corps have enjoyed playing them more than the other brands.

The best sounding horn line to ever play on Jupiter was 2009 Phantom Regiment. Their first year on the horns. And there was a noticeable difference from the sound of the the Phantom lines on the King horns. And the change was not a good one IMO. The high brass didn't jump off the field like it used to and the low brass lost it's huge deep dark sound, mainly provided by the King euphoniums.

Since 2009 though, I have never really been impressed by the sound of a Phantom Regiment horn line. They have had the volume, and they have had some awesome shows. But they just haven't been able to get that beautiful sound they got in 2008, or the sound in 2006 ballad (just to name my favorite horn line moment in the history of DCI).

That being said... can the change in sound really just be from the talent in the corps? Even the King lines year to year had different sounds to them.. because of players, writing, etc. Even Crown, the most consistent year to year since 2007(they switched from Kings to Yamaha in 2007) have a different sound each year.

Another point. Is it worth the price cut when your high bras has to work that much harder? Phantom's high brass has sounded rough since the switch. It sounds like they are trying really hard. And the fracks and cracks are way more abundant. I mean, a lot more than the horn factors into it. Talent, teaching, how well they march. But the horns definitely aren't helping.

Remember, that this whole post is just my perception of the Jupiter brass. It depends how valid you find my ears to be I guess. And also, I am talking about the sound of the whole line compared to others.

Also, I wouldn't go and say that the lines are complete crap. They do need to do a lot of work with the high brass. And I have heard of durability issues. And I don't like the sound.

My feelings exactly. I might even go further & say Regiment would have likely scored at least 1/2 point higher in total across the music captions if the higher brass players had better instruments to play.

Harvey

[Kevin Doherty]

Nice job, everyone. Rational discussion, good examples. High quality DCP discussion IMO.

Kevin

[Dave]

One of Jupiter's biggest problems is material. They just aren't using the same quality of brass as the better brands, and it is noticeable. One of the first casualties is solder points; they overbrace to try to make the horn stronger but all it does is unbalance the horn and make it heavier than necessary, not to mention creating more points to break and create vibration. Conn-Selmer's not giving hornlines away, but as the saying goes, you get what you pay for, and a free Jupiter hornline even for a couple seasons...well, that's about what it's worth in comparison.

[musiccitybrass]

My name is Brian Kackley, I am the brass caption head with Music City Drum and Bugle Corps and am an alumnus of The Madison Scouts. I'm stating my name and title because I choose not to hide behind my screen name.

Personal opinion of performance quality and the equipment used has been in debate since the inception of this activity. I too have my own likes and dislikes and very strong opinions towards one instrument manufactor or another. Being a charter caption head at a very young and developing drum corps, I owe a debt of gratitude to Jupiter. Have I had issues with the instruments? Of course. To Jupiters credit, they have remedied every single concern that I have brought to their attention and have done so without hesitation. This will be Music City's second season on Jupiters and I am pleased with their efforts and work that they have put into supporting our concerns.

The bigger picture on this subject is that there are companies out there willing to help thousands of kids receive an education from this activity that they won't get anywhere else. They provide the tools for these young people to create the sounds that we all enjoy listening to. I'm very thankful to Jupiter because I get to stand in front of a brass line that puts a smile on my face every second of the day. I understand the companies growing pains. It's not easy to build something. Down the road when you get the results you strive for, you appreciate what you have and what helped you get there.

It's like I tell the hornline. Succeed through your failures. That's how you will build character and excellence.

[Jeff Ream]

Welcome to the Internet. Some folks aren't happy unless they can be unhappy about something. And if they don't like it, no one else can.

I'm played with some of the Jupiter stuff before, and don't find a problem with it. The low brass is great. Yeah, the high brass isn't perfect, but it's not the worst thing in the world.

It's just like DanielRay said, it's smarter for a corps to play on Jupiter and stay financially stable than play on King or Yamaha and have to fold because they're out of money. Simple answer.

OP, stop being a troll and go find something to be happy about. It's almost June.

illegal use of logic and reason. 4 staright run thrus, no water in between

[JimF-LowBari]

Welcome to the Internet. Some folks aren't happy unless they can be unhappy about something. And if they don't like it, no one else can.

LOL as it brought up a work reference.

AM: You know, you're not happy unless you;re b#######.

GB: Whadda mean, I'm telling you how stupid and pointless this project is... <rant, rant>.

AM: See!! Bet you're happy now.

Had to laugh at the taped up P/R reference as at least those puppies held up. Weren't made with a lot of intonation in mind but they held up. Held up to the point that they could be sold at "hand me down" prices to a corsp with less deep pockets. *Which is part of the point of some of the posts here.* IOW - less than what you want is still better than nutin'...