2012 Blue Devils

[Quad Aces]

First off, I'm certainly not the arbitrator of opinion around here...and it's obvious that you applaud for whoever the hell so moves you. I just try to keep in mind that everyone of the MM's on the field from DCA to DCI march on their own dime. And more importantly, they perform what is written and designed for them. Therefore, (IMO) all of them deserve my recognition of their hard work...it's not much to ask of us, and in the end it's sort of their salary and keeps the activity interesting and supported. But when that recognition is used to send messages, i.e. "we're mad at your design staff", "we don't want the judges to score you so high", "we want someone else to win", "I don't get your show", "do what you used to do back in 19**", "I'm ###### at your Director", "fill in the blank".....it doesn't translate on to the field. So, do what you want, but I haven't seen a single show since my first in 2007 that I haven't felt the need to applaud for.

Sort of like the little leagues that don't keep score because they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Here's an idea - let's remove the scoring system from DCI altogether and just have every corps play in exhibition all season long around the country. We don't want the judges to hurt anyone's feelings because everyone worked hard the whole summer, right?

[Tusayan]

Can someone please explain to me exactly why Apple is considered so innovative?

Popular? Sure! Great designs? Sure!

Pretty simple. What's the commonality between Mac, iPod/iTunes, iPhone and iPad platform? In each case Apple has redefined the user experience.

Before the iPod and iTunes store there was no simple way to listen to and purchase digital music. Apple turned it into a multi-billion dollar business. Apple did the same thing with smart phones and tablet computing.

[chaddyt]

There's a huge difference between "insinuating lack of intelligence" and "lack of open mindedness". If you choose to make that leap yourself, you do it on your own.

I'm not entirely sure open mindedness is what was being questioned.

But like so many things Plan, we will have to agree to disagree.

[Triple Forte]

First item...this is regarding previous seasons and shows...obviously this isn't refereeing to 2012 because...we haven't seen or heard yet...

Actually TF, I think you missed BBB's sarcasm in his calling me a "hater".....read it again!

I was using the 'hate comment from BBB' to create my own sarcasm....which was basically pointing out that people are getting grilled (in a sense) for expressing they do not care for a particular show, presentation style or even corps.

And let me ask this....give me three reasons why a corps staff with their choices and a corps with there performance shouldn't be trying to excite and entertain as many of the masses as they can with their field presentations?

And you need not be too concerned....BD will be just fine..struggling as they are competitively and going unnoticed so often.

I have said it before...as a fan of drum corps....could care less about a corps competitive record....successful or unsuccessful. One of my top 10 favorite musical shows didn't even finish in the top 25 in 2011. Sure I like a strong dominant corps every now and again and tight scoring and a few upsets....but most of the time I could care less the results (And judging by the droves of people who leave shows before the scores are announce I am not alone....

Not making your top ten will not exactly shake them to the bone.

Not what corps priorities are but....if I were an integral part of designing and/or approving a program...my focus would be provide a vehicle that will challenge and excite the membership and entertain and excite the thousands of people we perform for each season (show, exhib, parade...etc)

Finally, your comment about their lack of swagger recently...Are we taking about the Blue Devils that wear like blue, black and white uniforms and come from CA? Just checkin'.

>>I have a relatively short history here so....

You pretty much answered this one....you don't have time/exposure to them like I have had...just my own opinion.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Triple Forte

[jjeffeory]

Pretty simple. What's the commonality between Mac, iPod/iTunes, iPhone and iPad platform? In each case Apple has redefined the user experience.

Before the iPod and iTunes store there was no simple way to listen to and purchase digital music. Apple turned it into a multi-billion dollar business. Apple did the same thing with smart phones and tablet computing.

Good reply! You prove my point in your response.

Apple is great at refinement, but I wouldn't call it innovation. They are masters of making a uniform experience across platforms.

There were methods of listening to and purchasing digital music before the iPod and iTunes. Apple made the experience uniform. There were tablets before the iPad. The familiarity of the iPad and iPhone made people go to them, not innovation.

So, I believe that Apple is a GREAT company with very talented people. I just think that they have historically been innovators so much as they have been masterful refiners.

They don't have the fastest hardware or the most feature rich software either.

This goes all the way back to the 80s too.

[Plan9]

Good reply! You prove my point in your response.

Apple is great at refinement, but I wouldn't call it innovation. They are masters of making a uniform experience across platforms.

There were methods of listening to and purchasing digital music before the iPod and iTunes. Apple made the experience uniform. There were tablets before the iPad. The familiarity of the iPad and iPhone made people go to them, not innovation.

So, I believe that Apple is a GREAT company with very talented people. I just think that they have historically been innovators so much as they have been masterful refiners.

They don't have the fastest hardware or the most feature rich software either.

This goes all the way back to the 80s too.

If you can't apply the word innovation to Apple...I'm not sure who you could....Lady GaGa??

I do see your point about refining their products...but think about it...who invented the portable digital and downloadable music, who invented the marketplace to buy online music, who invented the smart phone and who invented the tablet? These were not just refinements....they thought about the digital population and made things that we didn't even know we needed. Now everyone of those I mentioned is ensconced in our lives.

[chaos001]

Okay.. if you like their shows lately, good for you.

I do not. I have voiced that opinon many times.

I recognize the excellent level each show has been executed.

You CANNOT deny the less than enthusiastic crowd reaction this corps has received the past couple of years. Polite cheering at the end of the show. Some corps 13-20 get a better crowd reaction.

My only point is, you can have yours, and I can have mine, but why can't we both have it all?

I'm not asking them to play the same old stuff year after year.

There is SO MUCH MUSIC out there. Hell all the music they have chosen for all of these shows is awesome music... except for maybe City of Glass (IMO of course... just not a fan of that stuff.. and I would explain more... but that's for like a serious discussion about avant garde music)

It's the way they choose to present the rep that they choose. It doesn't do anything for me. I watch BD.. I'm amazed by their technique, their almost flawless visual execution... and hey why not, they play pretty #### well to. But that's it. That's as far as it goes.

I can appreciate all that stuff.. probably because I marched, and I consider myseld a decent musician with a decent ear for things, and I appreciate great performance. But their shows just leave me feeling flat at the end.

Unlike Cadets, Crown, Cavies, Phantom, SCV, Madison, etc.

Are all of those corps doing the same thing?? NO! Thank God!!!!

But they are all entertaining (SCV is debatable almost along the same lines as BD)

I just wish BD could do what they do, and entertain the #### out of me like they used to. 2003? 2004? Hell... 2005, 2006 aren't my favorite, but I can enjoy it!

I even started to enjoy last year... but something just didn't click.

Just stop calling me a ####### hater.

That word is grossly used by people who can't seem to form a valid argument to counter seemingly negative posts about a corps they like.

Just thought that I'd add some evidentiary support here.

I've attended the Murfreesboro show for going on thirteen years now. Surprisingly enough, the crowd is well-informed about drum corps history, the present things going on with the corps/staffs, and responds well to every show with tons of enthusiasm...except for BD since '04 (with a good response to the first half of '07 as well).

Why?

Because the shows don't engage the audience. Art can be successful on multiple levels if you allow it to be. I see BD's shows as of late not as avant guarde, but as forced pseudo-intellectualism. If one has the intent to make something high-brow, he or she usually fails and the product turns out to be "weird" or disjointed. It was mentioned in another post that BD's design team is so in sync with one another. Maybe they've reached a point where they aren't fully aware of their designs? Maybe they can no longer self-edit? Who knows...until they realize that engaging most of the audience is the goal, they'll be bashed on here and in the stands.

[BRASSO]

Just thought that I'd add some evidentiary support here.

Maybe they've reached a point where they aren't fully aware of their designs? Maybe they can no longer self-edit? Who knows...until they realize that engaging most of the audience is the goal, they'll be bashed on here and in the stands.

If BD finished out of the top 3, my guess they'd be a reevaluation of their current style. Absent that, the judges seem to like BD, and so from BD's design staff's perspective why fix something that ain't broke, you know what I'm sayin' ? I fully understand your frustration, but BD does an outstanding job of evaluating the judges sheets, and then effectively goes out and competes with a vehicle that 9 times out of 10 puts them in a position to win it all. If they're rewarded for these recent shows, I imagine there's no problem as far as they're concerned. But like I said, if they fell out of the top 3, you can bet your life that they'd probably seriously reexamine what they have been doing for shows of late. Thats how I see it anyway.

Edited May 7, 2012 by BRASSO

[audiodb]

My argument (in conversations on DCP) has always been about posters claiming to know why everyone in the stands is sitting on their hands or politely clapping and most often it is to bolster their argument that it is because of BD's presentation. I believe (as you may know) that many other things are at play as well, and to what degree one or the other is more prevalent, none of us have any way of knowing. I understand that some fans feel that "fan reaction" is the only counter for competitive results, but in recent years it has become ridiculous and beyond the pale.

Why should that bother you, then?

In short, why not just applaud all the corps, no matter what they put on the field, as long as they perform the #### out of it? But the politics of competition creep into this debate and dominate the conversation. Why else would this thread that started on 26 April have twice as many pages than any other Corps thread (exception SCV and Madison which both started in Dec)? Why?

Maybe your 29 posts in this thread have something to do with it.

Seriously, this thread has been primarily an exercise in trolling for many pages now. We all know the advice "don't feed the trolls". Clearly, both the trolls and the ones feeding them are enjoying their roles, or they would have stopped long before now.

[chaos001]

If BD finished out of the top 3, my guess they'd be a reevaluation of their current style. Absent that, the judges seem to like BD, and so from BD's design staff's perspective why fix something that ain't broke, you know what I'm sayin' ? I fully understand your frustration, but BD does an outstanding job of evaluating the judges sheets, and then effectively goes out and competes with a vehicle that 9 times out of 10 puts them in a position to win it all. If they're rewarded for these recent shows, I imagine there's no problem as far as they're concerned. But like I said, if they fell out of the top 3, you can bet your life that they'd probably seriously reexamine what they have been doing for shows of late. Thats how I see it anyway.

I meant for that to be more in the spectrum of crowd response rather than competitiveness.

On the other side, if their design staff is thinking exactly the same as your post indicates, then I say they're doing things for the wrong reasons.