2012 Blue Devils

[Jeff Ream]

very relateable show to an older crowd ( not that young didnt apppreciate it also)

the crowd was mixed. But in Atlanta the week before the crowd also ate it up....old crowd there too?

let'sbe honest..yeah there was some ABBD reaction. But it was hardly even close to 20% of the crowds reasoning for roaring. Look at the reaction Phantom got when they performed at finals...and BD still had to go on yet.

can't blame the announcement of scores for that....they were still in the oven baking

[GUARDLING]

the crowd was mixed. But in Atlanta the week before the crowd also ate it up....old crowd there too?

let'sbe honest..yeah there was some ABBD reaction. But it was hardly even close to 20% of the crowds reasoning for roaring. Look at the reaction Phantom got when they performed at finals...and BD still had to go on yet.

can't blame the announcement of scores for that....they were still in the oven baking

no doubt it was a good show..no doubt people loved it....no doubt it was also anyone but BD...it was all part of it. How do you know these percentages Jeff...hmmmmm I thought I knew you better than that..lol thats what Im saying NO ONE knows these percentages...was there a poll at the stadium? Dont say people heard or said either that only shows who anindividual may have spoke to. Oh well still has nothing to do with now as well as sheets this year or BD now.

Edited May 8, 2012 by GUARDLING

[Plan9]

I’ve been following this thread with some interest. I will admit to being a big BD fan (hey, they ARE my home town corps, and I have over the years had many students who were corps members), so I have been curious to see the reaction to this year’s show announcement, but my comments here are more a response to the ongoing debate on DCP regarding BD’s show design choices, fan reception, etc.

Understand, I’m coming at this from the position of one who is a producer of art (visual, not musical) rather than that of a consumer of art. There are basically three driving forces at play when I create an image; I think these three forces are at play with ANY artist(s), regardless of medium. They are: a goal of executing my work with the highest possible technical proficiency that I can; a desire to express my “creative vision”; and a desire to produce an image that resonates with my viewing audience.

Interestingly, (or not) the drive for technical perfection is actually the most important for me as an artist, because regardless of which of the other two is serving as the primary motivational goal, neither can be fully realized if I don’t nail the technical presentation. Presenting anything less than my technical best at the time is a disservice to my viewers. (Side-note: in competitive arenas, this force becomes even more important).

The other two forces are the most problematic. Do I produce an image that is primarily motivated by what I wish to express, or do I make an image that comes primarily from what I perceive the viewing audience would prefer (like, appreciate)? I’ve done both. The ultimate goal, of course is to do both at the same time, but that can be a very narrow line to walk, and there are pit-falls to either choice. Following one’s own creative vision can leave some, or a lot, of the viewers dis-satisfied. Aim for perceived viewer response primarily, and one runs the risk of stagnating creatively as an artist. The key, IMO, is not permanently emphasizing one motivational force over the other. As I said, it’s a thin line to walk.

In terms of drum corps, the best situation (again, IMO) is when SOME corps are designing their shows with an eye primarily on what do they think the current fans desire (at least from that corps), and when SOME corps are focused primarily on producing a show that best expresses their creative approach to the medium. Having both is ESSENTIAL for the ultimate health of the art form. If EVERY corps plays primarily to what they think the audience wants, not enough risks will be taken, and the art form becomes stale. If EVERY corps focuses primarily on their own personal creative interpretation of the medium, there is the possibility (depending on the direction the creative choices go) of ultimately losing too many fans, and becoming too much of a niche activity.

I guess what I am saying is that I TAKE A GREAT DEAL OF COMFORT IN THE CONSTANT DEBATE (currently surrounding BD this time) over show choices and which motivational factors corps SHOULD be considering, because the existence of the debate means that different corps ARE approaching shows from different motivational directions and that is good for the long term health of this activity we all so love.

This.

The only other question I've asked repeatedly that remains unanswered is: When 21 cokorps in a row perform largely traditional shows and one single corps does something different, executed superbly (even if if didn't meet someone's threshold of entertainment)....Why is it treated like DC blasphemy? My answer: competitive outcome.....otherwise it would go marginally noted. IMO.

[whitedawn]

This.

The only other question I've asked repeatedly that remains unanswered is: When 21 cokorps in a row perform largely traditional shows and one single corps does something different, executed superbly (even if if didn't meet someone's threshold of entertainment)....Why is it treated like DC blasphemy? My answer: competitive outcome.....otherwise it would go marginally noted. IMO.

Man, it's not the "DC blasphemy." No one is saying that BD shouldn't do what they want, and no one is arguing that they won't do it well. With the Cadets doing something hare-brained this season, I'd say that BD's odds of winning are about 3:2.

The pain point is the constant implication (and sometimes exposition) by BD fans (and the BD show in question itself) of "Well, if you don't like it, you don't get it," in cases where reasonable minds (drum corps fans) can differ on whether something is enjoyable or notable.

I "got" Winged Victory and Constantly Risking Absurdity and all the other shows since 2000 that have been largely (in my opinion) ho-hum as drum corps shows. I watch drum corps not to be hit over the head with "art," but rather to watch kids do great things. These shows have done very little for me, and I assume many others.

I just think that the corps and its fans take themselves a bit too seriously. It's marching band!

Edited to add:

Edited May 8, 2012 by whitedawn

[Plan9]

ok allow me to rephrase:

I know when you're fuller of your own #### than usual

better?

Better.

[BRASSO]

This.

The only other question I've asked repeatedly that remains unanswered is: When 21 cokorps in a row perform largely traditional shows and one single corps does something different, executed superbly (even if if didn't meet someone's threshold of entertainment)....Why is it treated like DC blasphemy?

When have we ever had a year where all " 21 Corps in a row performed largely traditional shows and 1 Corps does something different ? ". I must have missed that year. Since the inception of DCI, there has never been a year in which there was not a wide variety in the type of styles, shows, music, uniforms, etc offered in contrast by the Corps among one another. We've had everything from conventional, traditional, avarte garde, retro.... almost without exception every year in DCI. Some win, some don't, some are liked, some arn't. This is nothing new at all. BD is certainly not the first Corps thats done an unconventional show that unsurprisingly was met with an unconventional crowd response. It goes with the territory. If you do an out there show, you know the lay of the land. You do it and live with the consequences. I have no illusions that a Corps show design team is so tone deaf to audiences that when they do an out there show that they are somehow shocked with the audience response. Why is it " blashemy " for a fan ( or fans ) to say they don't like something ? Whats up with THAT ? Are Corps extended the right to " freely espress themselves ".. to "push the envelope if you will "... but that same courtesy of "free expression" is somehow not extended likewise to fans as well to push back when what is presented is on some occasions not liked ? Why are fans likewise sometimes " blasphemed " as " haters " when they express some displeasure on occasion with what is presented ? Where is the tolerance for the fans opinions ? Good or bad ?

Edited May 8, 2012 by BRASSO

[audiodb]

The only other question I've asked repeatedly that remains unanswered is: When 21 cokorps in a row perform largely traditional shows and one single corps does something different, executed superbly (even if if didn't meet someone's threshold of entertainment)....Why is it treated like DC blasphemy?

Because some think Teal Sound's use of....oops, wrong thread.

On this board, any corps can be treated like blasphemers....and most are.

[Triple Forte]

This.

The only other question I've asked repeatedly that remains unanswered is: When 21 cokorps in a row perform largely traditional shows and one single corps does something different, executed superbly (even if if didn't meet someone's threshold of entertainment)....Why is it treated like DC blasphemy? My answer: competitive outcome.....otherwise it would go marginally noted. IMO.

Well....I don't think what BD is creating and performing is so much more innovative than what most of the other corps are doing. Let's take an obvious one....the very controversial 2010 BD show. Well...I would argue that as strange and unusual as that was...I would say what Cavaliers performed in 2010 (Mad World) was pretty much on par with being equally unique/different. Another would be SCV 2009 (Ballet for Martha)...defiantly unique compared to most others (including BD).

BD (like many) have a certain design formula they have been following. IMO that is what most fans have been disappointed with...BD's chop n bop musical wishy washy sort of presentation. I attribute it to a guard person holding the position of Program Coordinator....just my opinion. Although I like the move they made in 2011 musically..hopefully a move in that direction continues in 2012.

My answer: competitive outcome.....otherwise it would go marginally noted. IMO.

IMO...I think you put to much emphasis on this one. If the crowd digs a corps show....they don't care what corps wins the show. I would say there are A LOT of fans who are there to be entertained....and don't care who wins. I think that fans who don't pull for the crowd favorite (go along for the ride sort of speak) are the fans who have an unwavering commitment to a particular corps.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Triple Forte

[flammaster]

I didn't like 2011 BD. I found it to be mostly selling out. It was a great show and performed excellently but I personally don't like pop music so I didn't care for it. Who won? Oh yea Cadets and boy did i love their music! (Cavaliers also)

i personally like the stuff BD has been doing lately and I think this year will be a culmination of more of what they have started.

I'm still going to clap if I see someone playing music I don't care for because that is what drum corps people do..(or did)

[NeutralNovice]

Their show is pretty dang great this year! Not my favorite but really close!

But please please, can anyone tell me if their ending is their actual ending come August? I just can't imagine BD with a quiet ending--and it's not designed very well (IMO) to begin with; it just screams placeholder to me. If they change that ending, I think it will only make the show incredibly better.

I guess I am concerned because, from what I remember, their "real" ending usually manifests itself at this point in the season, right? Or am I mistaken?