GUARDLING Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 If it was not for these " networks ", the world would have a much different viewpoint on ( for example ) what went on inside Egypt and Syria the last year. The state controlled media in these countries was sending out a completely different observation than the regular people's observations. The regular people were conversing with one another, and were on the ground and witnessing for themselves live what was happening. You bet your life their view was " skewed " from the propaganda that was being out out by the so called state controlled mainstream media. While there can be drawbacks to false info coming from these networks, ( for example, the elderly couple terrorized by a wrong address sent out by Spike Lee to potential vigilantes in the T. Martin case ), these networks tend to be pretty accurate representations of events as they unfold live, rather than a news crew or a single reporter trying to piece together the event hours, days, weeks, years, etc after the event actually occurred. As for Drum Corps, we have show reviews from posters on DCP, our own observations at shows, and also Fan Network live shows via computer networking to gauge audience responses of Corps shows. We are not simply restricted to our observations fron just reading poster's comments on DCP. We converse with lots of other people beyond DCP and we can gauge for ourselves what the general consensus is on a Corps shows from audiences around the country. we arent reporting news here we offer up ( in many cases ) a bias view of our subjective activity....See theres the problem we tend here to make our statements as fact and that the masses agree or we know people who said so and so..........General consensus? maybe from ones point of view only. AS I said , one can find just as many to oppose on alomost any subject. Well, I still think as you believe these networks are a reliable source I'll take the professional study saying the contrary. Networks can be like that old telephone game,the content and tone of the subject changes within a few moments. Newtorks are fine and to some degree entertaining for many BUT to say it on any level is the opinion of any masses, even from a particular show judging from a computer ( which happens ) is far from accurate. Personally I think I would listen more to the person from the show BUT even then all it is is ones opinion, which EVERYONE is entitled to...........for or against. I spent the summer on tour and even as some would say light clapping for BD I remember many many saying OMG what a freakin sound, great guard. Now even there can I say the drum corps masses agree? I couldnt or wouldnt speak for the masses, although I think actually being on tour could give a clear vision...............or not........actually really doesnt matter at all nor has hurt BD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Yes, and while we are at it, no casual read of the thread comments on this thread can allow one to draw the inference that the collective shows of the Corps was not well received in 2011... Darn it! I didn't know I was supposed to do a "casual read" before I'm allowed to draw an inference. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Well, we disagree a bit on this topic. I have reported what I have heard at shows...and seen the opposite reported from others. In this very thread, Jeff mentions BD 2010 receiving a 'golf clap' to Glory's reporting that the overall response was "loud and clear in appreciation" at the very same show. As I said -- AFAICT 'golf-clap' is more shorthand than a literal term. There's some very careful word choice going on here. Just what does "loud and clear" mean? Clearly audible? I'd phrase the BD crowd response as "less enthusiastic than the audience response to BD in the recent past". Silly to be word chopping here. It's clear BD has been designing shows which make great use of the intellectual and aesthetic legs of the effect triad but with far less use of the emotional. It becomes very obvious when you see BD defenders making claims "you just don't get it" and "at least it doesn't pander" or "not programmed to the lowest common denominator". Personally I think if your audience doesn't "get it", it's you (the designer) that has failed and not the audience. You need to take the whole audience on the journey not just those willing to do the legwork before viewing the show. But -- that's just my opinion :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Since the early 80's I can't remember anytime that BD could waltz into Allentown and receive more than a "polite" golf clap. I haven't been to J. Birney Crum in a while, but I would be tasked to think that the "local tenor" has changed considerably. No. Thats not been my observation in Allentown over the years at all. The Allentown crowd does have its favorites to be sure, but BD response there has been quite good in the past. It certainly has been better for them in Allentown in years past. I don't believe the audience has changed. I believe the BD's shows have changed. BD got a very good response, for example, for their Godfather themed show in Allentown in 2006.( placed 3rd that year at DCI) I was there. I was also there also in 2010. The 2010 show did not connect with the audience as well there that year. They got mostly a golf clap in Allentown in 2010. But they won DCI in 2010.I saw BD again live in 2011, but not in Allentown. The response was a bit better, but not what we are accustomed too in years past. Thats my take on audiences anyway. Some people on here are certainly free to believe that BD has been a big hit with their shows of late too with national audiences. No problem. Edited May 8, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 How can you say with certainty that DCP is not " what the majority of fans " think ? I did not see Phantom Regiment Spartacus show at all. But DCP'ers told us the show was received enthusiastically at Finals. Were they unrepresentative of the audience ? Did they get it wrong ? Did Phantom get a golf clap at Finals, and the DCP'ers were a small group of people that were " hardly evidence " of the Phantom's Finals performance of Spartacus ? Just asking how the logic works here, thats all from those few here on DCP that apparently believe the majority of DCP'ers here are so apparently out of touch with what national audiences are thinking. When something agrees with one's opinion, support it and use it as evidence. When it doesn't agree with one's opinion, underplay it and find outside evidence that diminishes its influence... That's what's going on here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) ... I'd phrase the BD crowd response as "less enthusiastic than the audience response to BD in the recent past"... I agree with this in reference to BD 09 and 10. The audience responded less enthusiastically than it had to other BD (or other championship) shows in the past. However - and again, this is the big however - that isn't saying the crowd in general didn't like the show. I think the applause indicated clearly the crowd was voicing enthusiasm for BD. This isn't an exercise in semantics - at least not where I'm concerned. Neither is it just black or white, loved or hated. Nuance is necessary in this analysis because the crowd wasn't uniform. It is reasonable - and I say its factual - to report that BD 09-10 received a range of response that in aggregate was approving and enthusiastic. For the many golf claps in my chucklehead expert section, there were more fans clapping louder and harder in support of the show/performance/effort/chairs/mirrors/gator/younameit. Crown probably got more applause in 09. Cavies probably got more in 10. BD got plenty nonetheless, enough to say the crowd in general appreciated the show loudly and clearly. And by the way, not that it should determine my credibility in this matter, I was a golf clapper. HH Edited May 8, 2012 by glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) I agree with this in reference to BD 09 and 10. The audience responded less enthusiastically than it had to other BD (or other championship) shows in the past. However - and again, this is the big however - that isn't saying the crowd in general didn't like the show..... And by the way, not that it should determine my credibility in this matter, I was a golf clapper. Agree. You can observe the change but after that you're own your own :-) Personally I think the BD design team has decided to see how far they can take the outrageously indecipherable and still get credit from the DCI judging community. When (after 10 years or so ) someone finally calls bull#### on a BD design, they will all retire en masse laughing their ##### off saying "I can't believe it took you so long". Edited May 8, 2012 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Agree. You can observe the change but after that you're own your own :-) Personally I think the BD design team has decided to see how far they can take the outrageously indecipherable and still get credit from the DCI judging community. When (after 10 years or so ) someone finally calls bull#### on a BD design, they will all retire en masse laughing their ##### off saying "I can't believe it took you so long". I whole heartily agree with your assessment here.. That's the funny thing. Many of us are calling ######## and there are those who will support the ######## with their justifications no matter what. This is so true to human nature! Look, the same thing happened to the Cavaliers last decade. It's going to happen to BD eventually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) General consensus? maybe from ones point of view only. AS I said , one can find just as many to oppose on alomost any subject. I doubt it.For example I think it would be in the impossible realm to find as many Drum Corps fans that disliked Phantom Regiment's 2008 Spartacus show as liked it. I recognize that this is not a " fact ", just my opinion. In my view, you could NOT " find just as many to opppose " all those that really liked their show. And thats just one Drum Corps show example. There ARE observable things... that while we can't call " factual ", ...there is compelling evidence to believe that the observation has bonifide merit. Edited May 8, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) I doubt it.For example I think it would be in the impossible realm to find as many people that disliked Phantom Regiment's 2008 Spartacus show as liked it. I recognize that this is not a " fact ", just my opinion. In my view, you could NOT " find just as many to opppose " all those that really liked their show. And thats just one Drum Corps show example. There ARE observable things... that while we can't call " factual ", ...there is compelling evidence to believe that the observation has bonifide merit. I know you will find this hard to believe BUT many felt it was the most over rated show of the decade...BUT It really doesnt matter you are talking about 1 corps and only 1 time...I liked the show personally and maybe many many or even most did BUT that doesnt say there are just as many BD fans today.....................I guess the old saying still holds true...keep them talkin no matter what otherwise you lose relevence whenooone wants to talk about you....lol..we'll have to agree to disagree Edited May 8, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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