charlie1223 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I listened to it. he contradictd himself talking about recruiting is cutting people off, then talking about how he wants to recruit like the old days...which cut people off. I don't think that's the aspect he was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Total attendance is unquestionably down compared to the 70s-80s. We have a small fraction of the number of corps and shows today compared to BITD. Sure. And people blame electronics, show design, synths for the decline however Im thinking that if those changes weren't made would the drop off have been even steeper? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Sure. And people blame electronics, show design, synths for the decline however Im thinking that if those changes weren't made would the drop off have been even steeper? Nearly all of the decline in corps/shows/audience happened long before A&E or Bb of was a gleam in Hop's eye. Amps in 2004 had nothing to do with dozens of corps folding in the mid-80s. Everything I've seen shows a more-or-less static DCI audience in the last decade, meaning we're gaining bandos at about the same rate we're losing dinos. Is that a good tradeoff to make? Obviously many in the activity believe it is. But if there was going to be any dramatic audience growth from DCI's new direction, we'd have seen it by now IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And in first place~ Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm sorry but where's the evidence for this? It seems to be such a commonly held view, but is there truly any solid evidence that drum corps has lost a lot of fans recently? Even if fans have been lost, might there not have been one or two new fans that have come to the activity in the past few years? ;-) Then there's the related canard that attendance is down. Again, where's the evidence? I have evidence. As in 10,000 more people at Finals when they were in Buffalo than they get now. If Indy had 18,000 last year as I seem to remember reading, then that 10,000 goes to 12,000. Maybe the local and regional shows have not declined in attendance, but I have no way of knowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallace Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Drum corps decline is due to a greater variety of activities for young people not to mention most people consider pageantry arts as nerdy for lack of a better term. Marching band programs have become the stepping stone to world class drum corps and sometimes a viable alternative. Though we all know differently, a lot of folks don't give community or open class corps the same deserved consideration as the G7/8. The cost of tour is prohibitive. Thankfully, Michael Cesario has heard the common folk and is moving the repertoires to accessibility. Otherwise, some shows have been shall we say esoteric at times and honestly, styled to the tastes of the judge rather than the paying public. Some of the electronic and voice work has been a bit hackneyed. Some has been brilliant--SCV 2004 comes to mind. Thank God Crown proved you can play at Jim Ott power on Bb because while the key change greatly helped tuning, volume suffered, and please admit that volume is one of the things that makes drum corps cool. To a newbie, that first GE hit is what hooks them not electronic samples or clarinet trios. And regrettably, the high level of musicianship and athleticism necessary to compete can be an impediment towards recruitment. Is the average musician or guard artist able to perform at this level? Cadets2 is proof that Hop thinks YEA needs an incubator to recruit candidates that have performance skills that are on the bubble. Do I think WW would be the end of drum corps? As we know it now, yes. It would continue, but it would be decidedly different for better or worse. Do I think WW could be used effectively? Sure, as an amplified instrument playing the first solo in Rhapsody in Blue or perhaps a sax quintet in a Cadets swing number, but I can't see sacrificing brass for flutes on the field. Edited June 22, 2012 by wallace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecamburn Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Total attendance is unquestionably down compared to the 70s-80s. We have a small fraction of the number of corps and shows today compared to BITD. I have never seen good data for full DCI tour attendance. Finals attendance is occasionally released by DCI, but in recent years mostly shows that Indy is not attended as well as venues like Pasadena & Denver were. IIRC, the DCI financials released in 2011 showed DCI ticket revenues growing at a slow pace. To your point, there's no strong evidence that Bb and A&E have dramatically shrunk the audience. There is also no evidence showing that they've significantly grown it, contrary to what their boosters predicted at the time. Clearly fewer marching members But in terms of show attendance, total attendance at what? Finals? That's one show (albeit a huge one) out of a season. But the overall "tour" is so much different now than back in the day, especially when you consider all the different ways, especially the fan network, that people are viewing shows. At least two shows are broadcast in move theaters nationally. In the 70s, in addition to finals, there were maybe 4-5 regionals - DCI East, DCI Midwest, etc. But now you have at least 5 "Premier" tour events that all seem to get decent crowds (http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=3a2c3ccf-2a45-4dc6-8d4b-304423207dff). Also, a whole additional show - quarterfinals - has been added to finals week. At least back in the 70s, finals used to be just prelims and finals. I'm still highly skeptical. To me the best comparison from season to another, or from one year to another is overall reach of drum corps. I'd still love to see some sort of apples to apples comparison of overall reach. Lest anyone think this is off topic, all of this is in response to Hopkins' characterization of DC as a whithering, non-viable activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 <satan> So Art is more important than Pleasing the Audience? </satan> Well, Art can please the audience...this one did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Well, Art can please the audience...this one did... Lol. It's funny to hear people praising acoustic-only from a corps who's one of the most "electronic" out there. Then again -- pretty much all of DCP is funny lately :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Again -- it's about driving more dollars into the income stream not about fans. Marching is a niche activity. Drum corps is a niche in a niche activity. If your out pitching for corporate donations, you're odds of getting support for marching band are an order of magnitude better than getting support for drum corps. I think the last point is where it doesn't follow. Why would it be easier to get support for marching band than drum corps? Just tell your sponsors, "it's marching band", which it is. You don't have to add saxophones to call it marching band. The companies that make flutes and clarinets make marching brass, too. The audience isn't going to grow because there are flutes on the field, and the audience is all the potential sponsors care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Lol. It's funny to hear people praising acoustic-only from a corps who's one of the most "electronic" out there. How is that funny? If you prefer acoustic performances, and then a corps, *especially* one known for pushing the limits of electronics, puts on a good one, why would you *not* praise it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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