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George Hopkins


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I didn't red mark you. One has to truly be vile in order for me to go there, and you weren't even close.

But, after talking with many people who have been in the room, I'm far closer to the truth than you are. he was the 1000 pound gorilla in the room. getting up and pacing during his spiels, demanding other corps finances be audited because they spent better than he did and he couldn't believe it...yet not opening his books when called out.

I know, and I say this with kindness, that you have soft spot for them. I have a soft spot for the corps itself...I have former students there, and I wish them the best. I'm sure Gibbs is probably as much to blame as Hop is, but then again, Gibbs is A LOT smarter about how he conducts his business.

But hey, I'm just the guy that got the G7 presentation and leaked it on here...what do I know or what do my connections know?

Connections or not you make it sound like the board was bending to his will. That makes the board sound even worse caving under him. If the best thing was to kick him off the board fine and maybe that was a good decision. However if your saying that others were intimidated by him and therefore decided to change the rule, then clearly the problem was with the BOD not being aggressive enough and standing firm to their beliefs.

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Connections or not you make it sound like the board was bending to his will. That makes the board sound even worse caving under him. If the best thing was to kick him off the board fine and maybe that was a good decision. However if your saying that others were intimidated by him and therefore decided to change the rule, then clearly the problem was with the BOD not being aggressive enough and standing firm to their beliefs.

well at times....yes, they did. and yes it was a problem.

I'll say this...since the change, DCI seems to have a lot happier customers.

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Let me start by saying that adding WW to DC is a BAD idea. That said...

In reading this thread I have seen some who claim that cost would be the thing that would prevent WW from being inserted into this activity that we all love so much. I respectfully disagree. If cost was the main driver we would not have the expensive instruments in the pit, or the electronics, or the amplifiers. Although I am very far removed from any corps right now, so far I can have no proof of my suspicisions, I do suspect that these items are/were much more expensive than your garden variety tuba/contra bass.

I do see another concern. Although the drills are mostly wide open now, the elbows of a clarinet player and flute player are not exactly on the same plane as a trumpet/soprano player. Just sayin'

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George isn't the pilot. He doesn't run DCI and he's not even in the board anymore. He's an influential voice. And if people see him as this mastermind then obviously his reasons resonate with some people. Everything he's proposed could not have been done by himself.

What boggles my mind is that people blame George for everything when really the only person to blame would be te CEO of DCI Dan Acheson since it's his organization. If there are less people at DCI events Dan should be the only name we should be talking about.

#justsayin

#ithinkyoumissedthepoint

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I have no direct contact with Dave Gibbs but I do have it on good authority that he is not likely to automatically concede to Hop's ideas or demands (to those in the know I'm probably understating that point). My impression is that he was led to believe one thing about the G7 idea and was as surprised as many of us at the proposal that eventually came out.

It may be anecdotal, but one only needs to read Gibbs' contribution to the G7 proposal to see the stark difference in presentation between Hopp's half and Gibbs'. If that's an example of their different management styles, then it seems obvious to me that Gibbs took the task much more seriously than did Hop, even if only in presentation.

I don't have evidence, but I suspect that it would be wrong to consider Gibbs or any other director as complicit or, for that matter, even advance-knowledgable, of Hopp's motivations in anything proposed. I think it's possible that Hop got agreement for one thing and presented another.

While it may be convenient to assume others willingly joined in GH's proposals, my opinion is that most directors have learned not to. The fallout from the G7 was strong medicine.

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In reading this thread I have seen some who claim that cost would be the thing that would prevent WW from being inserted into this activity that we all love so much. I respectfully disagree. If cost was the main driver we would not have the expensive instruments in the pit, or the electronics, or the amplifiers. Although I am very far removed from any corps right now, so far I can have no proof of my suspicisions, I do suspect that these items are/were much more expensive than your garden variety tuba/contra bass.

I can't speak to the expensiveness of woodwinds vs brass. But yes, electronics/mikes/PAs/mixers and fancy quiet marimbas are very expensive, though if you read Hop's endless proposals to get electronics allowed (he submitted them yearly until he got his way, speaking of browbeating), you'll see he underplayed the costs ("just a few mikes and a mixer are very inexpensive") and, once he got amps in, he used their existence as an excuse (along the lines of "well, we're spending all this money on expensive amps and mixers and all they do is amp the pit, so it'd actually be *more efficient* to just add some synths" -- he also used that line to argue against the proposals to drop electronics of any sort. He did not mention that getting rid of them would allow the corps to make some cash by selling the used equipment, not have to replace them, not stand as another $20k you have to spend to be competitive, etc, etc).

Edited by skywhopper
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I would just cringe if I heard one single clarinet "screech" at a drum corps show. :thumbup:

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well at times....yes, they did. and yes it was a problem.

No, they didn't. Just because they agreed with the changes in the proposals, doesn't mean they 'bent' to his will. That makes them sound like spineless toadies, which is hardly the case for the leaders of the top corps in the country.

Don't forget, for Amps and electronics the instructors had wanted them for a long time.

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I have no direct contact with Dave Gibbs but I do have it on good authority that he is not likely to automatically concede to Hop's ideas or demands (to those in the know I'm probably understating that point). My impression is that he was led to believe one thing about the G7 idea and was as surprised as many of us at the proposal that eventually came out.

It may be anecdotal, but one only needs to read Gibbs' contribution to the G7 proposal to see the stark difference in presentation between Hopp's half and Gibbs'. If that's an example of their different management styles, then it seems obvious to me that Gibbs took the task much more seriously than did Hop, even if only in presentation.

I don't have evidence, but I suspect that it would be wrong to consider Gibbs or any other director as complicit or, for that matter, even advance-knowledgable, of Hopp's motivations in anything proposed. I think it's possible that Hop got agreement for one thing and presented another.

While it may be convenient to assume others willingly joined in GH's proposals, my opinion is that most directors have learned not to. The fallout from the G7 was strong medicine.

HMMMM is this why all the 7 directors continued to support it even after the presentation

its also easy after the fact to say you didnt or did feel a certain way. If it had gone in the favor of the promotors of the proposal, I think ( I know ) you would have had even more in support outwardly.It didnt, so now it's easy to say the opposite.

Also, noone succeeds alone. If Hop has the persuasive powers that many say he has then it doesnt say much for the others. One of those 7 was always on the fense BUT thats what they always have done ALWAYS, they wait to see whos winning and jump on that side .... JMO

WEll,lets not go back to that whole fiasco :blink:

Edited by GUARDLING
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I have no direct contact with Dave Gibbs but I do have it on good authority that he is not likely to automatically concede to Hop's ideas or demands (to those in the know I'm probably understating that point). My impression is that he was led to believe one thing about the G7 idea and was as surprised as many of us at the proposal that eventually came out.

It may be anecdotal, but one only needs to read Gibbs' contribution to the G7 proposal to see the stark difference in presentation between Hopp's half and Gibbs'. If that's an example of their different management styles, then it seems obvious to me that Gibbs took the task much more seriously than did Hop, even if only in presentation.

I don't have evidence, but I suspect that it would be wrong to consider Gibbs or any other director as complicit or, for that matter, even advance-knowledgable, of Hopp's motivations in anything proposed. I think it's possible that Hop got agreement for one thing and presented another.

While it may be convenient to assume others willingly joined in GH's proposals, my opinion is that most directors have learned not to. The fallout from the G7 was strong medicine.

I think you'd be very correct on 6 of them

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