N.E. Brigand Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 No, woodwinds don't belong in drum corps. Neither do electronics or Bb brass, and it needs to stop somewhere. I am reminded something the movie critic John Simon wrote about a mid-1970s election to the National Society of Film Critics, whose membership was supposed to be based on merit. Looking at a slate of proposed members, a colleague thought them all to be of limited achievement and talent, but he told Simon he felt they were no worse than some people already in the organization. Simon's reply: better a plurality than a majority. That is to say: just because some unfortunate elements have been allowed in drum corps, does not mean that all of them should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) This thread is still going? I thought we would all be full of waffles by now... I guess I'm not helping things... haha Edited June 26, 2012 by kickhaltsforlife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I am reminded something the movie critic John Simon wrote about a mid-1970s election to the National Society of Film Critics, whose membership was supposed to be based on merit. Looking at a slate of proposed members, a colleague thought them all to be of limited achievement and talent, but he told Simon he felt they were no worse than some people already in the organization. Simon's reply: better a plurality than a majority. That is to say: just because some unfortunate elements have been allowed in drum corps, does not mean that all of them should be. I can't say that I have ever seen any unfortunate elements allowed in drum corps. I have seen some elements used at a level that was not exactly up to the rest of the elements used, but it was not due to the nature of the elements themselves, but only the design and execution. These were basically used in a sort of immature way, the same as you see the mad rush and awkward overuse of certain words on television when finally allowed by the FCC. Elements should not be used simply because you suddenly can. In the same way, it seems odd to restrict anything at all for any reason other than safety or logistics. If it makes a sound or creates a visual, fits within the time/logistic contraptions, doesn't cause damage and it makes sense contextually... why the hell not? Bagpipes? Why not? Strings? Why not? Trampolines? Why not? There is so much possibility out there with synchronized sound and movement... makes no sense to limit possibilities and force everything into a sort of unnecesary sameness. Edited June 26, 2012 by danielray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 How popular were the guys from Kronos when they were doing only more traditional repertoire? Adding all these thing you are talking about caused their ticket sales and recording revenues to go through the roof. Something to be learned here, no? Don't know anything about Kronos. I do know that I watched the 2012 BD show on YouTube before it was pulled. It was depressing. They have this pre-recorded voice talking over the corps as it plays. I almost stopped watching it was so bad. You can't hear the music very well and the drone of the talking is distracting. Honestly, it was a sad moment for me. I am sure the kids in the corps are good. The drumline seemed good. But somewhere along the way, show designers have hijacked what a drum corps show is IMO. It's more like a modern dance piece now, and I don't mean that in a good way. Maybe it has been the WGI influence. But I don't think that influence has been a good thing. It has created a sub-par overall product. Sections might be exceptional, but the overall takeaway is negative. I mean, you have taken someone who loves drum corps (me) and made them cringe. Did Kronos make people cringe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Don't know anything about Kronos. I do know that I watched the 2012 BD show on YouTube before it was pulled. It was depressing. They have this pre-recorded voice talking over the corps as it plays. I almost stopped watching it was so bad. You can't hear the music very well and the drone of the talking is distracting. Honestly, it was a sad moment for me. I am sure the kids in the corps are good. The drumline seemed good. But somewhere along the way, show designers have hijacked what a drum corps show is IMO. It's more like a modern dance piece now, and I don't mean that in a good way. Maybe it has been the WGI influence. But I don't think that influence has been a good thing. It has created a sub-par overall product. Sections might be exceptional, but the overall takeaway is negative. I mean, you have taken someone who loves drum corps (me) and made them cringe. Did Kronos make people cringe? If you don't know anything about Kronos, you know absolutely nothing about string quartets... I mean zero, literally. They are pretty much THE string quartet on the planet. They sell out halls all over the earth and have sold millions of albums. Kronos - The String Quartet, Reinvented They use electronics, they use samples, they use voice, they use pretty much anything they can... and they do it unbelievably well. The first time I saw them was a performance of George Crumb's "Black Angels"... sat front row... puzzled by why a string quartet had a row Marshall amps behind them. It completely changed my view of what chamber music could be in one single night. Kronos did make a lot of people cringe at first... the purists... rigid thinkers... traditionalists... most of which are nearly extinct by now. But, not a big deal, as you can't grow an audience by catering to those who already have clearly defined parameters of personal preference. Growth can only happen by focusing on a younger audience that is still exploring and interested in discovery. Drum corps is already more than a half a century behind much of the rest of the music world, to say that it is somehow too progressive is absurd. The type of stuff Blue Devils are doing with samples is pretty much the sort of thing composers were exploring with tape loops in the 1950's. Drum corps is extremely far from progressive. Regarding modern dance, drum corps taking more influence from modern dance is a very good thing. But by modern, I mean within at least the last 100 years. Drum corps is just now barely even catching up to Isadora Duncan. The is a long way for drum corps to go to catch up to the dance world and personally, I'd love to see what could happen if this was sped up a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) If you don't know anything about Kronos, you know absolutely nothing about string quartets... Great. You got me. I know nothing about string quartets. Nor do I care. I care about drum corps not being turned into some bastardized version of cheesy marching band. And, you know, I think you missed the point about string quartets in your quest to tell me I know nothing about something I care zero about. And please, I don't need your thoughts on growing a business or marketing said business (or activity). I have plenty of experience in that arena. And it's my professional opinion that DCI has done a horrible job to grow the activity. And people like George Hopkins aren't helping either by turning drum corps into something that is becoming unwatchable. Edited June 26, 2012 by atlvalet 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Bagpipes? Why not? Strings? Why not? Trampolines? Why not? If any of these items show up on the field with a competing DCI corps, my stadium seat will probably ony be used for sporting events in the future. Edited June 26, 2012 by Ghost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutDutOut Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Regarding modern dance, drum corps taking more influence from modern dance is a very good thing. But by modern, I mean within at least the last 100 years. Drum corps is just now barely even catching up to Isadora Duncan. The is a long way for drum corps to go to catch up to the dance world and personally, I'd love to see what could happen if this was sped up a bit more. I agree! Would love to see some William Forsythe ish out there on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 So according to everyone....DCI will die relatively soon? I guess it will be up to DCA to continue the tradition of drum and bugle corps. Thankfully there is still an organization that cares about the tradition of drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 How popular were the guys from Kronos when they were doing only more traditional repertoire? Adding all these thing you are talking about caused their ticket sales and recording revenues to go through the roof. Something to be learned here, no? I'm not the most musically plugged-in member here, but classical is my thing. And I've never heard of Kronos. Have you ever heard of Carpe Diem String Quartet? The point is in there, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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