George Hopkins

[garfield]

Don't know anything about Kronos. I do know that I watched the 2012 BD show on YouTube before it was pulled. It was depressing. They have this pre-recorded voice talking over the corps as it plays. I almost stopped watching it was so bad. You can't hear the music very well and the drone of the talking is distracting. Honestly, it was a sad moment for me. I am sure the kids in the corps are good. The drumline seemed good. But somewhere along the way, show designers have hijacked what a drum corps show is IMO. It's more like a modern dance piece now, and I don't mean that in a good way.

Maybe it has been the WGI influence. But I don't think that influence has been a good thing. It has created a sub-par overall product. Sections might be exceptional, but the overall takeaway is negative. I mean, you have taken someone who loves drum corps (me) and made them cringe. Did Kronos make people cringe?

Funny how people's perceptions are different. I agree about the cringe factor.

As I read DanielRay's description I kept thinking "Jeesh, this sounds like it makes some sense. But in drum corps? Trampolines and bagpipes?

Cringe.

[N.E. Brigand]

I'm not the most musically plugged-in member here, but classical is my thing. And I've never heard of Kronos. Have you ever heard of Carpe Diem String Quartet?

The point is in there, I think.

"Take it to the bridge, cello-lady!"

I attended a Kronos concert in 1991; one work incorporated recordings a rapper had made for them, including the quoted line.

Kronos predates Carpe Diem by more than 30 years. The 2010 NYT article to which danielray is a useful introduction to their work; this quote may be of most particular interest:

"Admirers said Kronos was making the string quartet medium palatable, even cool, for a rock-weaned generation. Detractors insisted that the flamboyant trappings were meant to mask technical shortcomings and distract from a shallow, kitschy repertory."

Here's my question for danielray: is the Kronos Quartet a drum corps? Why or why not?

[Jeff Ream]

Instrumentation is not preventing anyone that has a genuine desire from participating in most drum corps. If you genuinely want to do it, you pick up a different instrument.

Instrumentation only impacts participation potential for those who would more likely participate if it was a bit easier for them (more local, less expensive, less demanding).

The argument here is not about growing the activity on the top tier of WC by adding woodwinds. Again, those kids who have what it takes to participate figure it out, regardless of what their primary instrument is.

The argument is to grow the segment of the activity that is less demanding (from both performance and touring) and more accessible to those youth who would like to participate in some way without the level of commitment required for extensive touring. For these groups, woodwinds make a hell of a lot of sense.

The idea of having youth bands perform and be judged at shows is not anything revolutionary or even close to new. Back in my day, Spirit of Sunnyvale used to perform at a lot of shows. A lot of kids from there went on to march SCV, BD, VK, Freelancers... but a lot were fully content with their youth band experience.

Anyway, the more I think about this... it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Why not?

and yet that band idea worked out how?

[GUARDLING]

So according to everyone....DCI will die relatively soon? I guess it will be up to DCA to continue the tradition of drum and bugle corps. Thankfully there is still an organization that cares about the tradition of drum corps.

the younger DCA gets soon the DCI ideas will follow..in the past it took about 10 years...younger and younger people in charge will change things there 2

The tradition of drum corps is still alive, its just those who choose to see it different from their days dont see how traditions are carried on...maybe tweeked, maybe to fit the member today and not 40 years ago but its there................look a little harder people, compared to many many other things that dont exsist anymore from the 40s 50s 60s and 70s be greatful theres even a glimpse of what we did.

[JimF-LowBari]

If any of these items show up on the field with a competing DCI corps, my stadium seat will probably ony be used for sporting events in the future.

Well at least Bagpipes were used before (USAF Bolling Field - Washington DC).....

Oh wait.. it's not new... that might kill the deal....

Edited June 27, 2012 by JimF-LowBari

[audiodb]

Instrumentation is not preventing anyone that has a genuine desire from participating in most drum corps. If you genuinely want to do it, you pick up a different instrument.

On that, we agree.

The argument here is not about growing the activity on the top tier of WC by adding woodwinds. Again, those kids who have what it takes to participate figure it out, regardless of what their primary instrument is.

The argument is to grow the segment of the activity that is less demanding (from both performance and touring) and more accessible to those youth who would like to participate in some way without the level of commitment required for extensive touring. For these groups, woodwinds make a hell of a lot of sense.

I have a better idea....how 'bout letting those corps decide for themselves?

The idea of having youth bands perform and be judged at shows is not anything revolutionary or even close to new. Back in my day, Spirit of Sunnyvale used to perform at a lot of shows. A lot of kids from there went on to march SCV, BD, VK, Freelancers... but a lot were fully content with their youth band experience.

Evidently, not enough to keep those summer youth band programs going. And that's the thing....there is no genuine interest in a DCI summer band activity.

[garfield]

If you don't know anything about Kronos, you know absolutely nothing about string quartets... I mean zero, literally. They are pretty much THE string quartet on the planet. They sell out halls all over the earth and have sold millions of albums.

Kronos - The String Quartet, Reinvented

They use electronics, they use samples, they use voice, they use pretty much anything they can... and they do it unbelievably well.

The first time I saw them was a performance of George Crumb's "Black Angels"... sat front row... puzzled by why a string quartet had a row Marshall amps behind them. It completely changed my view of what chamber music could be in one single night.

Kronos did make a lot of people cringe at first... the purists... rigid thinkers... traditionalists... most of which are nearly extinct by now. But, not a big deal, as you can't grow an audience by catering to those who already have clearly defined parameters of personal preference. Growth can only happen by focusing on a younger audience that is still exploring and interested in discovery. Drum corps is already more than a half a century behind much of the rest of the music world, to say that it is somehow too progressive is absurd.

The type of stuff Blue Devils are doing with samples is pretty much the sort of thing composers were exploring with tape loops in the 1950's. Drum corps is extremely far from progressive.

Regarding modern dance, drum corps taking more influence from modern dance is a very good thing. But by modern, I mean within at least the last 100 years. Drum corps is just now barely even catching up to Isadora Duncan. The is a long way for drum corps to go to catch up to the dance world and personally, I'd love to see what could happen if this was sped up a bit more.

With my traditional, rigid, puritanical thinking fully acknowledged, I did the "progressvie" thing and played through what I could find of Kronos on the Tube. It's no wonder I, as a classical music fan, have never heard of them. They don't play classical music. They play on classical instruments but they don't play classical music.

Schnittke sounded like an angry swarm of bees, and I watched for nearly an hour as the quartet tried to meld themselves around throat singing. Yes, they play cellos as well as fence wire.

But the most interesting thing was reading the Times article and then listening to YouTube. The Vietnam war, avoiding the draft, daisy-cutters, "tune-in and tune-out" - you could hear it all in the music. It's acid on string instuments. It's not avante gard, it's a 1960's protest on stage.

Most telling is the Times' clarity that this "movement" didn't spawn many imitators, though they're quick to point out the widespread "influence" Kronos has (not unlike that which drum had on marching band during the same time frame). Yea, Harrington made his millions, but not many chose to follow his lead even as they took some of his work for their own then ran out "to play in their own bands".

Is this the future of drum corps? No more than Kronos is the future of classical music.

Does DCI need to embark on a path of self discovery that never reaches resolution, managing to, even 30 years hence, leave it just as longing and unfulfilled as when it began?

Edited June 27, 2012 by garfield

[Shadowtron]

Instrumentation is not preventing anyone that has a genuine desire from participating in most drum corps. If you genuinely want to do it, you pick up a different instrument.

Instrumentation only impacts participation potential for those who would more likely participate if it was a bit easier for them (more local, less expensive, less demanding).

The argument here is not about growing the activity on the top tier of WC by adding woodwinds. Again, those kids who have what it takes to participate figure it out, regardless of what their primary instrument is.

Anyway, the more I think about this... it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Why not?

The activity already costs thousands for kids who are taking up 100k+ in college debt. We need to make it easier to attract kids to the activity, not more difficult.

He's absolutely right, if it's such a bad idea let them compete with it

[audiodb]

Well at least Bagpipes were used before (USAF Bolling Field - Washington DC).....

Oh wait.. it's not new... that might kill the deal....

True. For that matter, bands competing in a parallel division to drum corps is not new either....it pre-dates organized field competition. Bands and corps both had contests set up when the American Legion organized competitions just after World War I. The idea of staging these contests on the field developed in the mid-1920s.

[bawker]

Drum corps is already more than a half a century behind much of the rest of the music world, to say that it is somehow too progressive is absurd.

. . .and there it will stay, forever, as an activity.

Why?

. . .because it only knows how to borrow from others. Pastiche isn't an art form, it's an homage. The Blue Devils do nothing more than crib from WGI, as does most of DCI. They borrow liberally from wind band music and BOA/WGI. That's what the activity is now, more or less.

Adding woodwinds (the point of the thread) will only add to the stagnation:

Design meeting after passage . . .

"Ohhhh, I got it, my band program is playing Hounds of Spring. Yeah! We can do that and Russian Christmas Music and play an all Alfred Reed show! People will love it!"

"Heeeeey, our orchestra is doing Rhapsody in Blue: we can play that....with a REAL CLARINET in the pit. Oh man, and the piano patch! Wow, this is gonna be great!"

"Duuuuude! Kronos Quartet did this, we should TOTALLY use it for a pre-show!"

I trust drum corps design teams to be "original" or "progressive" about as far as I can throw Michael Cesario.

Drum corps programming now is designed to take as little risk as possible in order to max out some check boxes for upstairs.

Tell you what, Daniel, why don't we get Hop, Gibbs et al to actually take some risks with what they have now instead of tilting at windmills with woodwinds?

No?

I didn't think so.