Jeff Ream Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If it is true that audience numbers nationwide are declining, continuing to do nothing to try and reverse that trend is criminal, IMO. Agree or not with the 'what', and at this point George is pretty alone in what he is suggesting, at least he is making suggestions to try and grow the audience. by the way...what are the total DCI audience numbers year-by-year if you are so sure the total audience is in decline...not just champs, but at DCI shows all over the country? Did I say try nothing? No. I did say "don't add woodwinds". Huge difference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecamburn Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 by the way...what are the total DCI audience numbers year-by-year if you are so sure the total audience is in decline...not just champs, but at DCI shows all over the country? page 60 and still no real evidence on one of the cornerstones of the "drum corps is declining" argument. (Not pointing fingers at Mike D because he's looking for numbers too) This is a major premise of the argument that might not be true. Any one else think this might be a problem? Most seem to accept this as fact. But when you add up big regional shows + expanded finals week + fan network + youtube + drum corps planet + DCI fieldpass + individual corps websites, it seems like the reach of drum corps in this era stands up pretty well against the 70s, 80s, and 90s. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72Bach Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 page 60 and still no real evidence on one of the cornerstones of the "drum corps is declining" argument. (Not pointing fingers at Mike D because he's looking for numbers too) This is a major premise of the argument that might not be true. Any one else think this might be a problem? Most seem to accept this as fact. But when you add up big regional shows + expanded finals week + fan network + youtube + drum corps planet + DCI fieldpass + individual corps websites, it seems like the reach of drum corps in this era stands up pretty well against the 70s, 80s, and 90s. :shrug: Although I have no real evidence, I'm pretty sure that the attendance of Championships have been on the decline for the past couple of years...with the exception of last year, from which I heard was a increase of attendance from the years before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) page 60 and still no real evidence on one of the cornerstones of the "drum corps is declining" argument. (Not pointing fingers at Mike D because he's looking for numbers too) This is a major premise of the argument that might not be true. Any one else think this might be a problem? Most seem to accept this as fact. But when you add up big regional shows + expanded finals week + fan network + youtube + drum corps planet + DCI fieldpass + individual corps websites, it seems like the reach of drum corps in this era stands up pretty well against the 70s, 80s, and 90s. :shrug: Had regionals BITD too that were good sized. Wondering how much FN and the theaters brings $$$$ into DCI and the corps as DCP and YouTube bring squat. And as far as the reach the general population knew more about DC than today. Based that on BITD references in newspapers (even comic stips), non-DC people in the stands and other general reference places. Let's not forget less corps and less shows to decrease the local reach. Expanded Finals week? Still the same bodies in the stands so where is the increased reach? Edited June 28, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72Bach Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 see above. DCI had a band division. it failed....why? People didn't like it. And maybe some of us are doing things about it....we're just quieter The Band division of DCI probably failed because brass version was still around. Like I said, I prefer drum corps the way it is now(no woodwinds). Also, times are different now, maybe now a DCI style band circuit might be successful since BOA has become big. But I wouldn't start a different circuit now, having it compete against DCI would not be helpful to both sides. Kinda like when IndyCar spilt in two. With fans divided, the popularity faltered. I don't know the right answer, but I'm sure the people in charge have a better understanding of the sitiuation than those of us sitting behind a computer on these forums. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Drum corps was due to decline in the 70s and 80s. The model for funding, the need for insurance, the cost of food and gas, busing, and the cost of stadium rentals and other anciliary costs were changing at a drastic pace. Better instructors meant higher wages, more dedicated managements teams that helped to raise the funds year-round meant higher wages. It can't be all volunteer or it will not survive. So the cost of running a drum corps was no longer possible using the grass-roots model often employed by corps from the 50s and 60s, even well into the 70s. I say this because this perceived notion that we can do "something" to increase the number of corps and fans is not a good place to start. I believe that if you clear the deck and start fresh, or at least start with the year 2000, you will realize that drum corps isn't doing all that bad. Yes, I think we can attract new fans. We can always do that. Yes, we can bring some new life to the activity. And yes, we can find better models for funding the activity. What we CAN'T DO is change WHAT the activity is! Now, to some degree we can all argue that this has already happened. We no longer have real bugles, we have added electronics, amplification, etc. But at its central core, drum corps is brass and percussion with drill and choreography. Adding woodwinds would be a HUGE paradigm change. To me, adding electronics was merely expanding the pit, and adding amplification was changing the balances (sometimes ok and other time sh_tty). When Starbucks grew as a company and really flourished, they didn't change coffee. They roasted and brewed it differently to appeal to your taste buds! The experience was better. The store itself is an experience, the environment makes you want to drink a coffee, latte, espresso, etc., and you feel alive and ready to begin your day (or perhaps end your day). But at the core of that company is a simple task: make great coffee. DCI and its member corps do not need to change the contents of drum corps by adding woodwinds, real string instruments, choirs, and what not. They simply need to do drum corps better. It's the unique blend of brass and percussion, and the unique precision of marching and other visual elements that give this activity its charm, pomp and circumstance, and exciting "charge." We have already seen the additions of narration and electronics fall flat in many shows. Kind of like adding too much cream to your coffee, too much sugar, and too much carmel to your latte. Woodwinds were built for indoor use, and I am reminded of that every fall when I work with my marching band. Edited June 28, 2012 by jwillis35 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wort Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) not that Im not agreeing BUT ever look up why people love those things you mentioned? It has little to do with likes or dislikes but everything to do with a part of the brain thats triggered..lol...ok Im not nuts..lol..maybe a little.....lol But its true..look it up...very interesting....also it will tell you its the reason marching bands in the service were formed, the loudness( and other things ) trigger a group response which in tern merged peoples thoughts and emotions together.....interesting stuff................sorry didnt mean to hijack the thread Actually you do have a point. When we hear a sound that IS MUCH LOUDER THAN PREVIOUS SOUNDS, our brain reacts on a subconscious level. Respiration and heart rate increase, etc. That is why when a horn line is facing away from us and then turns in a company front at fffffff, we react. We really have no choice. It is the way we are wired. Its been called in this thread a "face melt" and it is a good thing, not easily accomplished by woodwinds. Just sayin' Edited June 28, 2012 by Wort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Actually you do have a point. When we hear a sound that IS MUCH LOUDER THAN PREVIOUS SOUNDS, our brain reacts on a subconscious level. Respiration and heart rate increase, etc. That is why when a hron line is facing away from us and then turns in a company front at fffffff, we react. We really have no choice. It is the way we are wired. Its been called in this thread a "face melt" and it is a good thing, not easily accomplished by woodwinds. Just sayin' I don't think that the most ardent WW supporter (hmmm....that might be me, come to think of it! ) would say that WW would be just as loud as brass. That is not the point. In creating charts the arranger uses the voices most appropriate for the musical phrase. In some areas the WW choir can be predominant, and in others it is the brass. Just listen to a Mahler Symphony for examples, among many choices. You aren't hearing a lot of WW in the big brassy moments, but you can at other times. WW can be very effective on the field, IMO, if the arrangement is set up to utilize each voice in the most appropriate manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wort Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't think that the most ardent WW supporter (hmmm....that might be me, come to think of it! ) would say that WW would be just as loud as brass. That is not the point. In creating charts the arranger uses the voices most appropriate for the musical phrase. In some areas the WW choir can be predominant, and in others it is the brass. Just listen to a Mahler Symphony for examples, among many choices. You aren't hearing a lot of WW in the big brassy moments, but you can at other times. WW can be very effective on the field, IMO, if the arrangement is set up to utilize each voice in the most appropriate manner. I was a drum major for our marching band in high school for 2 years, so I do have some experience there. I won't even say that woodwinds can't be effective outdoors at the direction of an excellent show designer. The fact that I can honestly say that I have yet to see it done might give a clue to the calibur of the marching bands I have had experience with, though. Once you get up in the stands a lot of the sound has dissapated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 page 60 and still no real evidence on one of the cornerstones of the "drum corps is declining" argument. (Not pointing fingers at Mike D because he's looking for numbers too) This is a major premise of the argument that might not be true. Any one else think this might be a problem? Most seem to accept this as fact. But when you add up big regional shows + expanded finals week + fan network + youtube + drum corps planet + DCI fieldpass + individual corps websites, it seems like the reach of drum corps in this era stands up pretty well against the 70s, 80s, and 90s. :shrug: I'll put it like this: DCI puts out numbers when they look good. when they don't, you see nothing. Last year, all we saw was finals week numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.