Popular Post Blackstar Posted July 12, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2012 1- The financial model is unsustainable. In very few activities can such a large financial output with a low ROI grow. Of these activities most are singular and those that require groups have an almost even cost vs income. While fans of this activity look at the return on a summer of traveling, learning and performing, the financial return just isn't there. Also there are what could be considered more "worthy" groups for grant or donated monies to be given. Most small business' would love to make a million dollars a year. But since many don't I don't see the chance for a DCI top 12 corps to last in this day and age. Sure there will always be those that make me out to be a liar but in the end money will make the difference. 2- To much competition from other activities. In the 40's, into the early 70's kids had limited options on learning music or travelling. Now high school bands are almost touring and travel enough to satisfy their needs. And at a much lower cost. As a parent I would have no problem paying for my 17-19yo child to travel with the high school band, But in the summer they should be working to pay for things they want and get ready for college. This is something I noticed as a volunteer firefighter. I joined at 15 and stayed. Most of my friends joined, most left but some also stayed. At one point we could say that every male in my neighborhood had been a member of the fire company. But then we found that kids had found other interest by age 15. electronics, girls, even drugs. We weren't the only fire company with this problem. We faced the same issues drum corps is going through. This is were someone writes about the 1000's of kids who try out every year. Then how come we don't have 50 full size corps? How come corps are looking for players in the middle of the season when they had all these kids audition? Why can't they call up the kid of just missed out and say "hey we got an opeining want to march" But no they are seeking an almost unknown quanity to fill a spot. How many kids who tried out and then seen a notice about an opening on that corps is now thinking "why aren't I good enough to call, to hell with drum corps" The number of kids who try out are a massive fraction of members of high school or college band. Its not as big as you think 3- There is no oversight. DCI is one of the few if only activity of this type that is self governed. Just think if baseball had the same model. Each year the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Rangers and other winning clubs made the rules to make it harder for other teams to win. How long would the fans of the other 30 plus clubs rise up and revolt. DCI has become boxing except only one governing body. They make rules that help the larger corps (themselves) and do nothing to assist smaller corps. How could they do that. Reduce the needed equipment each corps has. No electronics, smaller pits reduce allowed props on the field. Highlight open class corps during the simulcast. And by that I'm not talking a quick 1 minute highlight I'm talking 3-4 shows in full light world class corps. But why help someone get better to beat me, I wouldn't. 4-There is no real competition in DCI. Okay this might cause the most controvesary because I'm going to get tons of examples were corps A only beat corps B by 9/10's or how each years theres movement and this year the Cavaliers will finish outside the top 4 for the first time in decades. Sure all true, but what chance does the Colts, or Crossmen or even the Academy have of winning. I'm talking about finishing 12 this year and winning next year. NON, ZERO ZIP NADA. Only in DCI is that not possible. In baseball you get worst to first, baseball, heck even tennis once in a while but never DCI. But in DCI the top 12 run things. Maybe thats way theres been so little movement in the top 7. The major leagues want parity. It creates more competition. Who wants to see every football game win 35 to 7. But thats what we get with each show. If I see a line up of Cadets, Bluecoats, Crossmen, Surf I'll get the right order of finish 9.5 out of 10 each time. I bet most fans can pick the right order of finish for the next 10 shows, no real competition. 5- Theres no next generation of corps In the 70's and 80's we had the Glassmen, Bluecoats, Blue Knights and some others coming up the ranks. There was alsways that group of 15-25 corps around that could make a move up. And in that group there were some really entertaining corps outside of the top 12. Right now we have a good 25-30 strong junior corps. Another factor is that its too dangerous financially to start a corps. It takes what, $100,000 maybe $50,000 to get started without talking about touring. Bingo as no longer a viable income generator. Grants are hard to come by and inconsistant. If we get a new corps every 2-3 years and we're losing a corp a year it means the death of the activity. More people are upset over the lost this year of Teal Sound but almost overlook the lost of a corps that was supposed to be celebrating 75 years, the Racine Scouts. Until one of the big 7 drops out a year no one will wake up. What this activity needs is more corps like Pioneer who are stable financially and operationally. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esch Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Very well-thought-out and stated. I'm afraid you're probably right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) IMO - #2 Also people (not just youth) are more mobile which means they don't have to settle for activities that are within walking or mass transit distance. This means more non-DC options for people. Also affects fans as they can drive to distant things instead of a local show. Also means they may be working to pay for the car/mobility instead of having more leisure time. My old church is on the edge of a city and has been going thru a decline over the decades. Went to a study session about the decline and lot of the reasons can be applied to corps. Sad part is very little can be done about it. #5 - Just too #### expensive to start a new corps. Especially when the emphasis is on being WC which is more expensive to operate. Easier/safer to start a OC corps and work up but no one seems to get that far.... Edit: "Bowling Alone" by Robert D Putnam.... haven't read it yet but understand it can help with understanding society changes and its affects on organizations like DC Edited July 12, 2012 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Thunder Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 5- Theres no next generation of corps Despite the fact that 2011 was the first year we lost ZERO junior corps from the previous season in North America....... It was also the first year in history that ZERO new or resurrected junior corps were created from the previous season. This is a major concern. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaseyW Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 This is why I have no problem with posting extreme thoughts like "What IF DCI took a year off?". I love this activity more than every sport, and I'd prefer to go to a DCI show than an orchestra or jazz concert, and I'm a music major. The problem is just the reasons you have explained (plus the fact that MY generation (even that of music majors) are getting in to different things, even musically). I may be hated after saying this, but maybe we SHOULD start agreeing with George Hopkin's ideas more (except woodwinds). Him, and many other progressive decision makers in DCI, have really good marketable ideas that could possibly launch drum corps even further. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowtron Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) But high school programs have thrived since the 70s. The marching arts are still alive and well, but in high school and winter programs, not full national tour drum corps. I am confident in the future of the activity, but not the DCI model we have today. Edited July 12, 2012 by Shadowtron 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 But high school programs have thrived since the 70s. The marching arts are still alive and well, but in high school and winter programs, not full national tour drum corps. I am confident in the future of the activity, but not the DCI model we have today. Depends on the school, Harrisburg (PA) school district cut all funding to sports and arts this year as the city is bankrupt. They will continue this year thanks to private donations but it ain't thriving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njfritz Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 4-There is no real competition in DCI. Okay this might cause the most controvesary because I'm going to get tons of examples were corps A only beat corps B by 9/10's or how each years theres movement and this year the Cavaliers will finish outside the top 4 for the first time in decades. Sure all true, but what chance does the Colts, or Crossmen or even the Academy have of winning. I'm talking about finishing 12 this year and winning next year. NON, ZERO ZIP NADA. Only in DCI is that not possible. In baseball you get worst to first, baseball, heck even tennis once in a while but never DCI. But in DCI the top 12 run things. Maybe thats way theres been so little movement in the top 7. The major leagues want parity. It creates more competition. Who wants to see every football game win 35 to 7. But thats what we get with each show. If I see a line up of Cadets, Bluecoats, Crossmen, Surf I'll get the right order of finish 9.5 out of 10 each time. I bet most fans can pick the right order of finish for the next 10 shows, no real competition. I'm afraid you're right. I believe this is a reason a lot of people lose interest. How many other activities are there where one group has 14 championships in a span of 40 years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaseyW Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) 5- Theres no next generation of corps In the 70's and 80's we had the Glassmen, Bluecoats, Blue Knights and some others coming up the ranks. There was alsways that group of 15-25 corps around that could make a move up. And in that group there were some really entertaining corps outside of the top 12. Right now we have a good 25-30 strong junior corps. Another factor is that its too dangerous financially to start a corps. It takes what, $100,000 maybe $50,000 to get started without talking about touring. Bingo as no longer a viable income generator. Grants are hard to come by and inconsistant. If we get a new corps every 2-3 years and we're losing a corp a year it means the death of the activity. More people are upset over the lost this year of Teal Sound but almost overlook the lost of a corps that was supposed to be celebrating 75 years, the Racine Scouts. Until one of the big 7 drops out a year no one will wake up. What this activity needs is more corps like Pioneer who are stable financially and operationally. I honestly think that the Open Class division should be a bigger division. More World Class corps probably should be in this division. Only the elite world class corps (top 16-18) should really be in the World Class. This could possibly help the activity to grow, allowing more regionally based drum corps to birth (or even rebirth), and even reserve the tradition of drum corps. The OC corps could grow competitively and even develop more OC corps into "World Class quality" corps. Then you have the World Class corps. The World Class corps would be the "cutting edge" corps, and would be the only corps that compete on a national level. Basically, all of the corps could be given the elasticity to explore newer concepts and ideas. The auditions would be more intense, and maybe some WC could even require you to have previously marched in OC corps (IDK - maybe that's a bad idea). All in all, expanding the "lower tier" corps could be a bigger benefit, and eventually expand DCI in its entirety. Edited July 12, 2012 by kaseyW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'm afraid you're right. I believe this is a reason a lot of people lose interest. How many other activities are there where one group has 14 championships in a span of 40 years? The Olympics? Michael Phelps is on to break the record for most gold medals ever. DCI isn't like sports where head to head matchups can lead to the less talented team beating the most talented, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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