flammaster Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I literally just watched the VOD from the Fan Network of the Cadets and Blue Devils shows side by side from the Championships in Indy last year. Blue Devils were MUCH cleaner, in my opinion (drill and music), but Cadets still won. Then I saw this post, and it was a perfect opportunity to talk about that. Last year, when I watched both shows, I actually liked the Cadets show more than Blue Devils. However, just now, watching both of those shows from 2011 again, for some reason I like the Blue Devils more than Cadets. And again, you have to watch them, Blue Devils were much cleaner but still didn't win. Also, I liked the Blue Devils whole show design, idea, general effect, you name it, better. I didn't like BD's show last year. I liked Cadets music better last year. Yea BD was cleaner but, I have never liked Bacharach much at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Actually CNN would call the election And they'd look silly for doing so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Still 4 weeks left peepz. Take a pill or 10. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCImonkey Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 And they'd look silly for doing so. Let's not get into that November night in 2000, now. My head swiveled so many times that night....sheesh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Da Da! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Da Da! That's Dr. Dada McCrabcakes sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm still waiting for them to bust into, " Mmmm DADA oommm DOE DOE mmmm DAH DAH mmm DOE" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Drum Corps Nation Posted July 16, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) A) BD is clean, yes. That's not the issue though. There is not anything on this year's judge sheets or the previous judge sheets that says anything about "clean". It's all about achievement. It's about can you do something that's really hard really really well? Can you connect with the audience really really well? Can you do these things better than other people can? That's what the DCI judging system is supposed to be about. That's what they're supposed to be rewarding. So if you say "this corps was cleaner, they should win", then I'm sorry, but you're missing the point. B) Point A (see above) is a fallacy because if you do something really really hard, and you do it really really well, you make it look easy, and then you loose credit for it. Also, some captions, the way that they are designed, give credit to corps members for things that they didn't even do. Cadets in 2011 had a visual program that was lightyears ahead of anyone else, and because of that, all the marching members needed to do was create clarity enough for that visual design to be readable, and they would get credit for it. Individual vis credit. Ensemble vis credit. And Vis GE credit. Some of it probably bled into music GE as well. I'm not saying that the Cadets didn't march well. They absolutely did. But other corps could have marched just as well and they would have never gotten as much credit as Cadets over four different captions because their design was simply not as good. This is how the sheets are designed to work. C) Having said everything that I have said, it is still impossible for judges to not include some bias into their decision. Case in point: Someone went on the Texas Band Directors forum TheYellowboard.com today to complain about scores from the Minnesota regional, talking about slotting and corps getting the benefit of the doubt. The poster was immediately told to "take their complaints to DCP" and then were chastised because They obviously had never judged before. The person replying went on to say how difficult it is to be the judge to place someone a spot lower because one kid blows a release or something. As much as it goes against the integrity of a competitive activity like DCI, this is the way a lot of judges think, and the way they are encouraged to think. You're not supposed to penalize a corps for individual mistakes or "ticks". But at what point do enough ticks add up to a trend, a weak hornline, a corps that can't control upper-body... D) I have a deep knowledge of economics as it applies to things like this. If you study the spreads, the scores, the economics of DCI's judging system, there is only one logical conclusion: the system is completely subjective, or alternatively, in no way objective. It's almost statistically impossible for a corps like the Blue Devils, or any corps for that matter, to have had so much success, so consistently, with so many variables, for as long as they have. Nothing less than 5th since 1975? No finals score less than a 90.00 since 1976? If you study any other objective, competitive activity, you'd be hard pressed to find any other individual or team that has been so dominant in their activity as the Blue Devils have been in DCI. The logical conclusion? The activity is not objective, and as such, cannot be deemed as "fairly-judged". E) I believe that the Blue Devils are very important to DCI as an organization and to drum corps as an activity. Personally, I haven't liked a show that they have done since 2003, but I know that other people have liked their most recent shows. I don't hate them, and I don't want them to go away. However. The last time that a corps that was not Blue Devils, Cadets, Santa Clara, Cavaliers, or Phantom Regiment has won DCI was over 20 years ago. I sincerely think that this is bad for the legitimacy of DCI. Edited July 16, 2012 by Drum Corps Nation 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownBadger Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I personally respect all the Blue Devils do. When it comes to thinking outside the box and putting on a show they have definitely found a way to do that. The problem comes when we try to define was difficulty is and how the judges interpret that. In the end everything is laid down to interpretation. Me personally, I am rooting for crown this year but I watch the shows to decide. For Minnesota I called the top 5 perfectly (Almost got main captains right also but BD took music). Despite that, Crown was only behind BD by .5. When moving to the Rockford show, sure scores were a lot different but that's how the season is going to to be. New sheets, different judges, and all that fun jazz. In my opinion only regionals, where everybody is there, will show what true scores are. The rest don't mean anything (including TOC shows). Everyone isn't there. Not to mention there are judges that put .3 or .2 spreads between captions to separate people out. It happens. BD and Crown are gonna go head and head. Both have the shows to take it but there's always the dream team favorite. Just let both corps do what they do. Crown is a underdog trying to take their rise up. Blue Devils are the top champions. They'll prove themselves worthy once that drill is clean and they keep people out their seats come finals because it's so unbelievable. It's..."super natural". ;) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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