HPUEuph Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Why is that disrespectful? This is a competitive activity, and it was a legitimate question. It's not like he made a snarky remark? I think it was a sarcastic remark actually because for anyone who has followed this activity in recent yrs or even this season knows Pioneer hasn't made it to finals nor will they this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Pioneer could have a super competitive Open Class experience....high placements and at their level of competitiveness. It is no secret that the program, for whatever reason, doesnt compete well in World Class. That said, marching 30 shows on the World Tour versus 12 on the Open Tour is a very different experience and one that may go beyond placements, etc. Its a tough question: should Pioneer be in Open or World? What is it that makes up the total drum corps experience? Would they get a turnout in an Open situtation? Are they just training members to fly the coop after a year or two...kind of a dci cadet-corps? I, for one, would fear Pioneer if they were on an Open Class show roster. They would literally go from the small fry to the big dog overnight with that change. After years of taking their lumps, having them in an Open Finals with the opportunity to be a surprise at Quarterfinals might return the aura to a pretty awesome organization. The politics, show availability, compensation stuff that goes with that change might make it less favorable. Tough situation. I think it was a sarcastic remark actually because for anyone who has followed this activity in recent yrs or even this season knows Pioneer hasn't made it to finals nor will they this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Pioneer could have a super competitive Open Class experience....high placements and at their level of competitiveness. It is no secret that the program, for whatever reason, doesnt compete well in World Class. That said, marching 30 shows on the World Tour versus 12 on the Open Tour is a very different experience and one that may go beyond placements, etc. Its a tough question: should Pioneer be in Open or World? What is it that makes up the total drum corps experience? Would they get a turnout in an Open situtation? Are they just training members to fly the coop after a year or two...kind of a dci cadet-corps? I, for one, would fear Pioneer if they were on an Open Class show roster. They would literally go from the small fry to the big dog overnight with that change. After years of taking their lumps, having them in an Open Finals with the opportunity to be a surprise at Quarterfinals might return the aura to a pretty awesome organization. The politics, show availability, compensation stuff that goes with that change might make it less favorable. Tough situation. Well Stated. I think if DCI did away with separating the OC and WC from shows .. and combined slates so all corps could get in 28 to 35 shows a summer ... a corps like Pioneer or Cascades would be more apt to hang out in OC. That would also mean that the OC corps would get paid the same as the WC corps. The fact that they aren't .... is STUPID. Big dogs in DCI will always say that they are the draw and should be paid more ... be that as it may ... there was always a hope that there was some sort of fairness. As I've gotten older and learned more about how things were being run even back when I marched .. I've come to realize that this has been DCI's problem since their inception. It's always been class warfare ... and the lower class always lost. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Pioneer dominated Open Class ( was Div II ) and won several titles. If I recall they even scored a 98-99 at finals? They moved to World Class for a variety of reasons, I suspect getting paid for shows helps. What kills me is that so many people have "solutions" for Pioneer. Solutions that they frankly don't need. The corps has been fielding for decades when others can't. Any group that can put a corps on the field is doing it right, regardless of placement. As to the OP, we will find out in a few hours how OC will fare in the mix of things. There may even be some movement in the 15-25 range tomorrow night with the Open corps moving around a bit. Considering the Open and World sheets are different, we might even see some change in the Open corps placement. For instance, BDB might get 15th and Oregon might get 17th. I haven't seen any of the shows, but I know the placement order has shifted when Open corps move on the World shows later in the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'll buy this. My remarks were well intentioned. Well intentioned doesnt always mean welcomed or well executed. Your point is spot on. It isnt like Roman hadn't thought of any of this....and I meant no disrespect by offering it. What kills me is that so many people have "solutions" for Pioneer. Solutions that they frankly don't need. The corps has been fielding for decades when others can't. Any group that can put a corps on the field is doing it right, regardless of placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevils92 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 OC will place 16 IMO. Should be really interesting! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Pioneer could have a super competitive Open Class experience....high placements and at their level of competitiveness. It is no secret that the program, for whatever reason, doesnt compete well in World Class. That said, marching 30 shows on the World Tour versus 12 on the Open Tour is a very different experience and one that may go beyond placements, etc. Its a tough question: should Pioneer be in Open or World? What is it that makes up the total drum corps experience? Would they get a turnout in an Open situtation? Are they just training members to fly the coop after a year or two...kind of a dci cadet-corps? I, for one, would fear Pioneer if they were on an Open Class show roster. They would literally go from the small fry to the big dog overnight with that change. After years of taking their lumps, having them in an Open Finals with the opportunity to be a surprise at Quarterfinals might return the aura to a pretty awesome organization. The politics, show availability, compensation stuff that goes with that change might make it less favorable. Tough situation. I see absolutely no logical reason for Pioneer to remain in WC. It's a competitive activity, and there IS something to be said for the experience of competitive success along WITH the the other positive experiences the activity provides. I enjoyed my years at Colts, but winning Div 3 with Blue Stars in 93 was a much better overall competitive experience than placing 18th-22nd the years I marched Colts. I don't see how it can't be a drain on their membership to ALWAYS be last, and it without question contributes to their problems with retention and recruiting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) . Edited August 9, 2012 by BozzlyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Someone hit you with a NEGATIVE (-1) I wonder why...? At the end of the day, you are simply describing your personal and comparative experience. Something unique and, frankly, not a matter of opinion. That said, warming up in the lot with the idea that you are on your way to compete for a championship is a different feeling/mindset than just "getting ready to perform your show". With the first, you are, of course "getting ready to perform"...but you also have that taste in your mouth anticipation of not just "doing a good show" but also "being the best"...here....at this place...on this night. And it might come with an extra reward like an encore with the horn arc and all that jazz. That's a different feeling than taking last, packing it up and getting on the bus. Especially if you knew that's how it would end before the first note of music was played. I see absolutely no logical reason for Pioneer to remain in WC. It's a competitive activity, and there IS something to be said for the experience of competitive success along WITH the the other positive experiences the activity provides. I enjoyed my years at Colts, but winning Div 3 with Blue Stars in 93 was a much better overall competitive experience than placing 18th-22nd the years I marched Colts. I don't see how it can't be a drain on their membership to ALWAYS be last, and it without question contributes to their problems with retention and recruiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostrauser Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I watched OC on the feed and had mixed feelings. Their execution level is leaps and bounds ahead of the other Open Class corps. But the show design was really immature. I know this is cliché, but I really felt like I was watching a souped-up BOA show. BDB's show was much more "World Class" ready from a design standpoint. Talk of Top 15 or Top 12 for Oregon is silly, IMO. This is an 18th-20th place corps this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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