Did WGI Make A Mistake By Eliminating Age-Outs In The World Class?

[Joe Flynn]

It is proposal season for winter guard. Guard instructors from all over the country will submit proposals to their local circuits and to WGI in the hopes of changing some rule that will help the future of the activity. Many of the proposals will have legitimacy in their intent and some will be veiled by statements of the greater good, but are really selfish in nature to serve only a few. Many of the proposals won't make a difference at all, while others will change the face of our activity forever. When those game changing proposals are voted on and accepted, then there should be a mechanism in place for an independent panel of reviewers to evaluate the effectiveness of the proposal and bring recommendations back to the Board after implementation and after an acceptable period of implementation has passed.

Read the rest at http://paradigmwinterguard.blogspot.com/

[idel]

I found this very interesting and made me look at this topic in a totally different way. Thanks for a cool read!

[PC]

The WGI organization is run by representatives of the top 15 IW guards and the top half of the SW guards, last time I checked, just as it was back when I served two years on the Board almost two decades ago. From the perspective of the top IW groups it served their interests to a T. But it didn't do squat for the rest of us. The A classes, especially SA, are the biggest cash cows for WGI but all the benefits accrue to the top dogs in World Class that run WGI. For the top IW guards, lifting the age cap allowed them to dominate their class even more than they had before, but left the rest of the class fighting to just make finals in an even more disadvantaged position. And the Open Class guards that excel risk getting bumped into World Class where they find themselves way behind the eight-ball as far as attracting enough high-talent mature performers and staff and funding to match. Back when the cut-off age for all classes was 21, the jump to World Class wasn't as drastic and the playing field was closer to level. Now, it's like landing on another planet. I've lived through it multiple times but it definitely hasn't ever been a positive experience.

I like colorguard and winterguard as a youth activity, not as way for people to delay their graduation to responsible adulthood. And the IW shows have morphed into stuff that just doesn't even resemble the activity that I enjoy. And I'm not the only one who finds the A and Open Class shows far more entertaining than anything in World Class. On other sites plenty of reputable commentators gush about how much more enjoyable they find A and open class - leaving the obvious unsaid, that World Class shows have become as painfully unenjoyable as Modern Art.

A lot of young performers I've known that have gone on to World Class units have aged themselves out after just a few years, saying their bodies couldn't take the abuse anymore and that it was high time to grow up and move on. Eliminating the age-out at 21 for World Class benefited the already dominant movers and shakers that run WGI, but it just compounded the difficulties for everybody else in the activity.

[lindap]

I read a few of the long blogs. Get to the point! The over 50 crowd would like to get involved with winter guard to keep our arms from sagging. Is there a class for over 50?

[Sam98]

It might have been smarter for WGI to create a senior/all-age class, much as the drum corps world has junior and senior/all-age levels.

I think eventually you have to grow up and move on with your life. Find other ways to participate besides being on the floor and leave the performing to the younger set.

[lindap]

WGI has grown exponentially with 300+ guards attending finals perhaps. In the early 1980's we had 4 levels of guards associated with drum corps from ages 6 - 21. Drum corps faded and the winter guards continued. I went to local guard contests over the past 3 years. The youngest member was 4, the oldest was over 50. A guard member in her 30's or 40's is now taking ballet lessons. For years I've spun baseball bats or hockey sticks. My point is that winter guard is fun, improves health, stimulates friendships, allows for a performance outlet and provides an appreciation of dance and music at any age.

[Jeremy Denzer]

From the beginning of this rule change I have only had one argument against it. In the pre 2000 era the progression was that most performers would start with a high school and then move into an Independent guard until they aged out. After aging out they became the next generation of designers and instructors. My biggest fear has always been that we are losing the next big name instuctor because they never age out.

The positive effect on the change is that we are seeing the numbers of units in Independent World class flourish on a constistent basis. Remember that in 1999 the year before the change only 17 groups competed in the class......so few that they took everyone in finals. That was definately not a good situation. Also if you really look at the performers in world class today you do not see very many really old folks still marching. For the first few years many older performers came back....but in today's class they are the exception to the rule.

[TrishDish1002]

You're right Jeremy! definitely 2 sides to this debate!

From the beginning of this rule change I have only had one argument against it. In the pre 2000 era the progression was that most performers would start with a high school and then move into an Independent guard until they aged out. After aging out they became the next generation of designers and instructors. My biggest fear has always been that we are losing the next big name instuctor because they never age out.

The positive effect on the change is that we are seeing the numbers of units in Independent World class flourish on a constistent basis. Remember that in 1999 the year before the change only 17 groups competed in the class......so few that they took everyone in finals. That was definately not a good situation. Also if you really look at the performers in world class today you do not see very many really old folks still marching. For the first few years many older performers came back....but in today's class they are the exception to the rule.

[PC]

Spoken like dependable apologists for WGI. Dr. Pangloss in "Candide" - "We live in the best of all possible worlds!"

Whatever particular conditions obtained back in 1999, and there definitely were mounting challenges for winterguard units in ALL classes back then, the implication that "OMG, there will be even fewer world guards next year if we don't do something!" (expressed at the time almost exclusively by the super-groups in the best position to buttress their hegemony) was seen as obvious self-serving poppycock by most of the rest of us. The conditions Jeremy describes as "definitely not a good situation" we all knew would be viewed by the 1999 IO groups, about to be promoted at finals or just eager for advancement, as "low-hanging fruit". Their members were, after all, close to the same age and same numbers of years of experience. Without any drastic changes by WGI, the year 2000 was guaranteed to deliver a wave of new IW guards.

I always find it hilarious when apologists take on the age question as if us critics are talking about marching members about to collect Social Security. I'm 61 and close enough, but let me spell it out for you:

1. Kids in SA, SO, or (presumably) SW, are still high school kids and not much more than 18-19 years of age. How many years have the most experienced among them actually been spinning and performing colorguard choregraphy? Pretty much four years, at most, but the average in most units will, for practical reasons, be half that - maybe 2-3 years average.

2. Kids in IA or IO can only have 3-5 years more experience performing, and WGI-competitive groups in those classes would mostly be overjoyed if their members averaged more than four years of performing experience.

3. Leaving out the SW groups that endlessly suffer comparison to IW class, the DOMINANT IW units at their auditions get to survey gyms full of performers who have been dancing and spinning for 8-10-12 years and more, plus whatever phenom younger prodigies their dominating reputation has attracted.

4. There's a whole 'nother huge area of controversy about how the dominating IW groups write their shows around the highly-individualized skill-sets of these late twenty-somethings, padding their ensemble numbers with younger members who don't actually do much of anything except running-around looking young and pretty, but THAT is way too big of a subject to cover here.

5. Whatever growth the apologists crow about in Independent World Class amounts to not a hill of beans compared to the many-times larger growth in the A and Open classes, especially SA, WGI's main Cash-Cow.

Actually, Jeremy's argument contains nothing except the fatuous 1999 example and an irrelevant assertion that "you do not see very many really old folks still marching". How old? Somehow Trish sees this as a solid counterpoint. I suggest you both need to recalibrate your concept of "substance".

Edited May 16, 2013 by PC

[Jeff Ream]

maybe it's time for WGI to add a Sr division? I know in my local circuits, there are a few Sr guards, and members have to be 23 and up.

I notice percussion has held fast on the age out rule