perc2100 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 'Coats and Crown? What am I missing? Are you including Crown's OC title? Serious clarification... Yes, I am including Crown's Div. 2 Title. They are former DCI Champions & when Blue Stars were included in the Tour of Champions I made the same argument for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 How about the TBDBITL tour! NO!! no no no no no no no no no There is only ONE brass & percussion on earth who is allowed to perform under that moniker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumcorpsmademeaTuba Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 NO!! no no no no no no no no no There is only ONE brass & percussion on earth who is allowed to perform under that moniker I wonder how that group would sound if they made a full switch to bugle style horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plankton Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Yes, I am including Crown's Div. 2 Title. They are former DCI Champions & when Blue Stars were included in the Tour of Champions I made the same argument for them Yet, it is an exclusionary "group". Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Yet, it is an exclusionary "group". Why? Because the G7 are selfish and short-sighted? But I don't think the name of the series is the big problem. The problem is that these shows draw ticket sales from other shows, deprive 15-20 other shows' lineups of top corps, and instead of sending the excess revenue from the high ticket prices and massive sales to struggling corps or into seeding new corps or funding investment in a better Fan Network or more marketing, feeds it all into the corps with the fewest fiscal problems. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plankton Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Because the G7 are selfish and short-sighted? But I don't think the name of the series is the big problem. The problem is that these shows draw ticket sales from other shows, deprive 15-20 other shows' lineups of top corps, and instead of sending the excess revenue from the high ticket prices and massive sales to struggling corps or into seeding new corps or funding investment in a better Fan Network or more marketing, feeds it all into the corps with the fewest fiscal problems. True. Some Corps are just "more equal" than others. They're special. Just ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Because the G7 are selfish and short-sighted? But I don't think the name of the series is the big problem. The problem is that these shows draw ticket sales from other shows, deprive 15-20 other shows' lineups of top corps, and instead of sending the excess revenue from the high ticket prices and massive sales to struggling corps or into seeding new corps or funding investment in a better Fan Network or more marketing, feeds it all into the corps with the fewest fiscal problems. This is interesting and something I hadn't looked back at. Do they really? The closest a TOC show got to a local show was in Illinois, and the St. Louis show (the next night after DeKalb) had a great lineup. While I agree that the original proposal suggested differently, the current TOC hasn't interfered with local shows, has it? EDIT: I just noticed that the schedule this week has two schedule conflicts between the TOC series and DCI shows. Today, while the TOC are in Allentown, many of the O-15 are in Pittsburgh, and tomorrow there's Centerville vs Buffalo. But it's hard to make a suggestion that the TOC shows "draw fans" from other local shows; the distances between these cities are large, for sure. But if all the TOC were not in Buffalo, it would have been possible for DCI to book some of those in Centerville. While I suspect that Centerville's success is flat to their lineup, as ours is, it could be said that there might be some fans who decide to make the trip to Centerville to see those corps. This is a core flaw in the TOC mindset. If those seven were sent out to supplement the hand-full of Centervilles out there, they possibly draw more fans to existing shows in 6 other locations. The net draw to 6 shows in the last week before finals has got to be more than the net from asking everyone to get to Buffalo. Edited August 4, 2013 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 This is interesting and something I hadn't looked back at. Do they really? The closest a TOC show got to a local show was in Illinois, and the St. Louis show (the next night after DeKalb) had a great lineup. While I agree that the original proposal suggested differently, the current TOC hasn't interfered with local shows, has it? I don't think you can only compare to nearby shows within a day or two, but you have to look at all nearby shows throughout the season. It seems unlikely to me that there's no effect on the other shows. How did the Olathe, KS show do this year? Metamora, IL? Dallas? Eh, it's impossible to isolate, but I don't think the TOC shows are generating more money in the pockets of local DCI fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I don't think you can only compare to nearby shows within a day or two, but you have to look at all nearby shows throughout the season. It seems unlikely to me that there's no effect on the other shows. How did the Olathe, KS show do this year? Metamora, IL? Dallas? Eh, it's impossible to isolate, but I don't think the TOC shows are generating more money in the pockets of local DCI fans. Ah, but by that assumption you'd have to call it a success. These corps made no secret of their disdain for local shows because they put more money in the pockets of local show hosts. I know you know this, but it was always about capturing the drum corps fans to come to a super-show and absorbing all that fan money themselves. Only the local band programs suffer. But the fallacy is in the assumption that fans will traverse the distance to see super shows. They won't - well, some will, but not enough, IMO to replace the DCI revenue from 45 local shows. And the advent, and improvement, of the Fan Network will change even more the decision to drive 150 miles to a show. And not in the TOC's (G7's) favor, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Ah, but by that assumption you'd have to call it a success. These corps made no secret of their disdain for local shows because they put more money in the pockets of local show hosts. I know you know this, but it was always about capturing the drum corps fans to come to a super-show and absorbing all that fan money themselves. Only the local band programs suffer. But the fallacy is in the assumption that fans will traverse the distance to see super shows. They won't - well, some will, but not enough, IMO to replace the DCI revenue from 45 local shows. And the advent, and improvement, of the Fan Network will change even more the decision to drive 150 miles to a show. And not in the TOC's (G7's) favor, IMO. Interesting point. I agree that the Music in Motion venture could likely not succeed 100% on its own: meaning, those corps could not financially sustain their operations plus MiM operations w/out also participating in DCI. Of course, I also think DCI could not succeed with the top 3rd of their organizations leaving while still competitively successful. This situation is def. symbiotic which is probably why events are happening as they. As a side-venture, I don't see anything wrong with it, even if some more die-hard traditionalist disapprove. Like I said, I'd love (no, as a fan I downright DARE) Boston, Madison, Blue Stars, Spirit of Atlanta, Crossmen, Troopers, Surf to forum their own side-collective and call themselves Tour of Favorites to raise their own profile/Champion/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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