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Random Thoughts From DCI Buffalo


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older people (and just humans in general, I guess) do not like change. They prefer how things have always been.

Huh ? This is a Drum Corps website. We are discussing DCI Drum Corps. Just exactly how old do you believe that Wayne Downey is ? Under 60 ? Over 60 ? How old do you think judge George Oliviero that judged tonite is ? Under age 65 ? Over age 65 ? Just exactly how old do you believe the typical DCI judge is ? Under 50 ? Over 50 ? The Show Designers of the top shows ? Under 45 or over 45 ? What we are seeing put on the field of DCI, and judged these days, is an enterprise that is not conducted primarily by young people under age 50. But by people that are as old as dirt and yet have embraced Drum Corps "change" up the wazoo. They orcestrated much of it. Many of those their age left the activity of running Corps, and teaching Corps decades ago. Its the old dinos that have stayed behind that are running DCI these days.... and their old friends they've known in some cases for now close to half a century that are judging what they are producing. Outside of the MM's busting their tails out there, the young arn't involved in either producing these shows, nor judging these shows. The " change " in DCI Drum Corps being ushered in these days is primarily coming the people closer in age to age 70 than to age 40. I just hope you realize it when you state that the " old don't like change". This might be true in some situations and other enterprises, but not in DCI Drum Corps, thats for dam sure.

Edited by BRASSO
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Huh ? This is a Drum Corps website. We are discussing DCI Drum Corps. Just exactly how old do you believe that Wayne Downey is ? Under 60 ? Over 60 ? How old do you think judge George Oliviero that judged tonite is ? Under age 65 ? Over age 65 ? Just exactly how old do you believe the typical DCI judge is ? Under 50 ? Over 50 ? The Show Designers of the top shows ? Under 45 or over 45 ? What we are seeing put on the field of DCI, and judged these days, is an enterprise that is not conducted primarily by young people under age 50. But by people that are as old as dirt and yet have embraced Drum Corps "change" up the wazoo. They orcestrated much of it. Many of those their age left the activity of running Corps, and teaching Corps decades ago. Its the old dinos that have stayed behind that are running DCI these days.... and their old friends they've known in some cases for now close to half a century that are judging what they are producing. Outside of the MM's busting their tails out there, the young arn't involved in either producing these shows, nor judging these shows. The " change " in DCI Drum Corps being ushered in is primarily coming the people closer in age to age 70 than to age 40. I just you you realize it when you state that the " old don't like change". This might be true in some situations and other enterprises, but not in DCI Drum Corps, thats for dam sure.

Thanks for the knowledge! I definitely did underestimate the ages of the people who are bringing these changes to DCI. However, I still think my point stands that keeping an open mind is very essential to enjoying life in general, not just this new style in DCI.

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Thanks for your reply...It's just an general observation on my part...and for the record, I was a drummer on one of the top Drum Lines in DCI history for a few years instructed by Tom Float-- so I know a tiny, little bit about what I'm talking about...Have you ever marched on a DCI Championship calibre drum line?

Cheers,

Yes, I have marched in a champ-calibre line. Which made me baffled that you couldn't tell the difference between a West Coast and East Coast style. I'll chalk it up to you being away from the game for a little.

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Hi oakland crusader. I'd like to reply to a couple things you said.

"What I meant by having fun was that they didn't look like they were enjoying performing the type of show they have...it was merely an observation and gut feel on my part and you're right they are of a more serious type of corps but maybe it's time for them to move in a different direction...how many DCI titles have they won over the years doing it their way? ...they obviously have a lot of talent but you what they say about the definition of insanity -- it's when you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result...lol"

Is that not a bit vague? You complain that they don't "look" like they're having fun but you yourself resort to saying that it's a "gut feeling" when asked what your definition of them having fun is. Whether they're having fun or not is very much in the minds of the talented men and women in the corps. Much of your feeling probably comes from your dislike of the show. Their show is admittedly not a high energy one which may make the corps members seem like they are not having fun. And why do you assume that all phantom regiment wants is a DCI title? Yes it is a competition but (correct me if I'm wrong), most of the people who sign up for drum corps do it for the tremendous learning and growing experience. Not for a ring. I find Phantom's classic shows very enjoyable regardless of how many titles they possess.

"Never thought BD would need gimmicks to help put them over the top...like you basically said, props as an accessory are alright but when they become the main attraction of the show that's overkill"

Maybe this is an overreaction (much like how your whole original post is an overreaction) but does this statement not come off as rude? You assume that these props or as you call them, "gimmicks," are the reason why BD is at the top. There are very talented individuals in that corps and I do not think you are being very fair making this statement.

"Maybe I was a little harsh but that's the way I feel...like I said, I would love to be able to sit down with some of these people to find out what they were thinking and where they were coming from...to me they're like those fashion designers who's outrageous clothes you see on models on those runways...lol"

Judging from this comment alone I can tell you are one of the oldies who prefer things how they have been back in the day. That's not meant to be a criticism or insult, just an observation. Another observation I have made is that generally (not always. I don't like to generalize a whole population) older people (and just humans in general, I guess) do not like change. They prefer how things have always been. My only suggestion is that you try to keep an open mind. You will enjoy things (not just drum corps) a lot more if you do smile.gif

Thanks for your reply...

People march in drum corps for basically 3 reasons : 1) they love music and enjoy playing 2)friendships 3) they have a competative spirit ...Don't kid yourself, all the members of Phantom would love to win a DCI title...I'm only suggesting that maybe it's time for them to change directions to achieve that goal by possibly moving to a more high energy type show which would get the crowd behind them more and also be more fun for the members to perform...Their show which may be technically sound is boring and not very entertaining to most people in the stands and obviously not good enough to have a shot at the title...

I never said BD needed props to be on top...as a matter of fact, I'm suggesting quite the opposite -- that they're better than that...they don't need to use the props to the the extent that they're doing to win...the cream will always rise to the top...

I don't mind change or progress but when something to me is boring -- it's boring...there are a lot of things I've mentioned in my post that I like about the drum corps of today and there are somethings I don't -- but that's just me...I'm not saying it's right or wrong -- just my opinion....bottom line -- I still love drum corps no matter how many people try and screw it up...lol

Cheers,

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I don't think a complete change of direction is in order for Phantom. It could be that this was just an off year for them in terms of performance quality and really connecting with the audience in a big way. Normally, they've had a very strong track record in both those departments, including very recently. Sometimes corps just have a year they'd rather forget.

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I don't think a complete change of direction is in order for Phantom. It could be that this was just an off year for them in terms of performance quality and really connecting with the audience in a big way. Normally, they've had a very strong track record in both those departments, including very recently. Sometimes corps just have a year they'd rather forget.

alla 2009's completely forgetable Red Violin...

yup, it happens.

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Yes, I have marched in a champ-calibre line. Which made me baffled that you couldn't tell the difference between a West Coast and East Coast style. I'll chalk it up to you being away from the game for a little.

Nobody seems to have their own distinct sound or style -- I`ll argue that you could switch Devils line with the Cadets or Cadets line with the Crown etc and you wouldn`t notice much of a difference

You're probably right when you say because I've been away from the game for a little while that my observation may be off...but if you notice my original thought above I said that I could argue (debate )the point I made...I'd love to sit down with you or any other drummer and debate it over a couple beers and maybe you could show me of the error of my ways or vice versa...lol

That's what it's all about -- we all have a passion for drummming and drum corps and we love talking about it...

Duz Ga Duz

Edited by oaklandcrusader
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Great post. Most of the people who I marched with during my 8 years in Drum Corps with whom I still talk with feel the exact same way. Most don't attend shows anymore since the Drum Corps activity has become marching band.

Every DCI exec & Corps Director should be required to read your post. If they don't start listening to fans, well, you know...

Thanks for your reply...

We all love drum corps and just want to see it continue to be strong and thrive...I have no problem with progress and having corps try to take things to the next level but I think the pendulum has swung a little bit too far...hopefully, they can pull in the reins a tad and make it a little bit less like we're watching a Cirque du Soleil show in Vegas ...lol

Edited by oaklandcrusader
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Huh ? This is a Drum Corps website. We are discussing DCI Drum Corps. Just exactly how old do you believe that Wayne Downey is ? Under 60 ? Over 60 ? How old do you think judge George Oliviero that judged tonite is ? Under age 65 ? Over age 65 ? Just exactly how old do you believe the typical DCI judge is ? Under 50 ? Over 50 ? The Show Designers of the top shows ? Under 45 or over 45 ? What we are seeing put on the field of DCI, and judged these days, is an enterprise that is not conducted primarily by young people under age 50. But by people that are as old as dirt and yet have embraced Drum Corps "change" up the wazoo. They orcestrated much of it. Many of those their age left the activity of running Corps, and teaching Corps decades ago. Its the old dinos that have stayed behind that are running DCI these days.... and their old friends they've known in some cases for now close to half a century that are judging what they are producing. Outside of the MM's busting their tails out there, the young arn't involved in either producing these shows, nor judging these shows. The " change " in DCI Drum Corps being ushered in these days is primarily coming the people closer in age to age 70 than to age 40. I just hope you realize it when you state that the " old don't like change". This might be true in some situations and other enterprises, but not in DCI Drum Corps, thats for dam sure.

Thanks for your reply...

Cheers,

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Oakland, you had the courage to post what many, many people would love to say but don't. Us drum corps nuts are and have been divided for a long time. We had a show near where I live last Sunday none of whom were G7. $40 per ticket and not one top seven corps. I have been involved in drum corps either marching or as a fan for over five decades and I feel the same as you do for the most part. It's only going to get worse but I still will be a fan but with much less intensity. Don't let the younger crowd get to you as they only know drum corps as it is today....glorified marching bands. Their attitude is " if you don't like it then go away". That is precisely what many people have done....gone away and put our hard earned money elsewhere.

Good thing you didn't see Cadets in a way as they put something like16 (?) " towers" on the field (junk all over the place with most corps nowadays) not to mention transporting all that stuff and George Hopkins has the nerve to want more money. Things are messed up but it's not going to change. Thank you for telling it like it is.

Thanks for your reply...

Don't worry it doesn't bother me...I was just throwing out some thoughts and observations out there...wasn't trying to make a Federal case out of anything...if some people agree -- great!...if they don't -- no worries

Cheers,

Edited by oaklandcrusader
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