Crossmen - question for you.

[actucker]

Then rehearse that way.

Read the rest of my post and you'll see why they don't rehearse that way.

[caliswift]

Dr. Beat has been standard practice now for over 20 years. It's obviously better for the delay reasons stated above. Even my higschool used in the early 90's. Why do you continue to question a standard practice after the reasoning has been explained to you? With how fast and complex the activity has become, precision is a constant factor. If it leads to better accuracy why not use it? Should we use slide rulers instead if calculators? Why not an abacus?

[bmjfelts1988]

Alright alright alright. I finally got the answer I was looking for ("because they rehearse that way") and you definitely caught me.....I'm making a mountain out of a mohill......deliberately. Not to be a troll but to make a point far bigger than "using a met at a first exhibition performance of the season".

What is that point? Follow along with me. And WARNING: I'm probably going to hurt a few feelings along the way.

We hear purists gripe every single day about the "modern drum corps activity" with all of it's electronics, trombones, Bb horns yadda yadda yadda. But I honestly couldn't give a dried cat crap about ANY of that. I think the drum corps activity has a bigger problem - MUSICALITY (or lack there of).

To the people who answered "because they rehearse with a Dr. Beat" and the further answered my next comment "then rehearse different" (paraphrased) with "because that's how drum corps have done it for the last 20 years". I will now respond with.......THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

When I hear today's top drum corps, I hear top calibre talent, unmatched technical skills, rhythmic accuracy that's second to none and tone quality that is far more pure than ANYTHING that this activity ever heard in it's previous decades. But what drives me crazy (far more than "trombones" or any of that other crap) is that it's just too mechanical sounding (much like a lot of today's professional music...which I commented on in a different thread today and will comment more on in this thread later).

When you listen to the Buddy Rich Big band back in the day or even many of our top orchestras, there are TIMES when tempos are not 100% consistent but that is the ebb and flow that allows the music to BREATHE. Drum corps over 20 years ago USED to play that way and honestly, it was much more musical from an emotional standpoint than what corps do musically today. And CROSSMEN were one of THE BEST at it (even to being nicknamed "the unstoppable groove machine").

But now, it HAS to be "160BPM" (or whatever the marking is) and we "ABSOLUTELY CANNOT STRAY FROM IT" *beating hand against the table as we say the words in those quotes*

So now for the part that will hurt a few feelings. It doesn't surprise me that we've gone this direction because the activity is not being lead by "musicians". Don't get me wrong. There ARE excellent musicians in the staffs and design teams of the activity. But they are no longer in charge. The WGI people are in charge. It's all battery percussionists and guard people running the show.

Forget "instrumentation, amps....whatever"......I want to go back to playing "music".....not "notes and rhythms executed with 100% perfection to the loss of it's LIFE".

Yes, you're right. For 20 years we've heald to a "standard" in our rehearsal technique that involves mechanical naziism. It's time to change that standard.....because I want to hear some music for once.

And yes, it's no different in the real world of music. And for the same type of reasons. The music industry is no longer being lead by "musicians". It's being lead by sound engineers and producers who went into those fields because they were not good enough to succeed in their original craft. (told you I was going to hurt some feelings).

Edited June 27, 2014 by bmjfelts1988

[bmjfelts1988]

edit double post

Edited June 27, 2014 by bmjfelts1988

[actucker]

Alright alright alright. I finally got the answer I was looking for ("because they rehearse that way") and you definitely caught me.....I'm making a mountain out of a mohill......deliberately. Not to be a troll but to make a point far bigger than "using a met at a first exhibition performance of the season".

What is that point? Follow along with me. And WARNING: I'm probably going to hurt a few feelings along the way.

We hear purists gripe every single day about the "modern drum corps activity" with all of it's electronics, trombones, Bb horns yadda yadda yadda. But I honestly couldn't give a dried cat crap about ANY of that. I think the drum corps activity has a bigger problem - MUSICALITY (or lack there of).

To the people who answered "because they rehearse with a Dr. Beat" and the further answered my next comment "then rehearse different" (paraphrased) with "because that's how drum corps have done it for the last 20 years". I will now respond with.......THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

When I hear today's top drum corps, I hear top calibre talent, unmatched technical skills, rhythmic accuracy that's second to none and tone quality that is far more pure than ANYTHING that this activity ever heard in it's previous decades. But what drives me crazy (far more than "trombones" or any of that other crap) is that it's just too mechanical sounding (much like a lot of today's professional music...which I commented on in a different thread today and will comment more on in this thread later).

When you listen to the Buddy Rich Big band back in the day or even many of our top orchestras, there are TIMES when tempos are not 100% consistent but that is the ebb and flow that allows the music to BREATHE. Drum corps over 20 years ago USED to play that way and honestly, it was much more musical from an emotional standpoint than what corps do musically today. And CROSSMEN were one of THE BEST at it (even to being nicknamed "the unstoppable groove machine").

But now, it HAS to be "160BPM" (or whatever the marking is) and we "ABSOLUTELY CANNOT STRAY FROM IT" *beating hand against the table as we say the words in those quotes*

So now for the part that will hurt a few feelings. It doesn't surprise me that we've gone this direction because the activity is not being lead by "musicians". Don't get me wrong. There ARE excellent musicians in the staffs and design teams of the activity. But they are no longer in charge. The WGI people are in charge. It's all battery percussionists and guard people running the show.

Forget "instrumentation, amps....whatever"......I want to go back to playing "music".....not "notes and rhythms executed with 100% perfection to the loss of it's LIFE".

Yes, you're right. For 20 years we've heald to a "standard" in our rehearsal technique that involves mechanical naziism. It's time to change that standard.....because I want to hear some music for once.

And yes, it's no different in the real world of music. And for the same type of reasons. The music industry is no longer being lead by "musicians". It's being lead by sound engineers and producers who went into those fields because they were not good enough to succeed in their original craft. (told you I was going to hurt some feelings).

Wow. I don't even know where to start.

First off. You go ahead and explain to me how to keep a drum corps together the first time you're putting the show on the field when they are spread as far as they are often spread these days.

Second, not all rehearsal is done with a metronome. I'd encourage you to go to a rehearsal and see how that process works because you don't seem to understand it.

Third, Buddy Rich's band is a terrible example as Buddy was all about the tempo being perfect and would often have long tirades at his band members for missing a single note. That band was exactly what you rail against.

Fourth, your insinuation that "battery folks" aren't musicians is ridiculous.

Fifth, do you even have any idea who is "in charge"? You do know that WGI and DCI are different entities right?

Finally, if you don't hear the music that is going on, then I feel sorry for you. There's a lot more that goes into something being musical than whether or not the time can fluctuate, and if you can't see it, then you're missing out.

[bmjfelts1988]

Wow. I don't even know where to start.

First off. You go ahead and explain to me how to keep a drum corps together the first time you're putting the show on the field when they are spread as far as they are often spread these days.

How did we do it in the 80s? Does anybody remember? I do. I'll wait to see if anyone answers...

Second, not all rehearsal is done with a metronome. I'd encourage you to go to a rehearsal and see how that process works because you don't seem to understand it.

Oh I have. and I do.

Third, Buddy Rich's band is a terrible example as Buddy was all about the tempo being perfect and would often have long tirades at his band members for missing a single note. That band was exactly what you rail against.

Buddy controlled the tempo - and it breathed. Which is why the band swung so hard

Fourth, your insinuation that "battery folks" aren't musicians is ridiculous.

Told you I was going to hurt some feelings. But understand, I don't mean all battery percussionists. There are some phenominal musicians in the battery percussion world who's approach has always been different than most others. Thurston? Float? Where are you? (just to name two of many)

Fifth, do you even have any idea who is "in charge"? You do know that WGI and DCI are different entities right?

Oh but they are far more connected than you think.

Finally, if you don't hear the music that is going on, then I feel sorry for you. There's a lot more that goes into something being musical than whether or not the time can fluctuate, and if you can't see it, then you're missing out.

There are exceptions for sure - and I always enjoy those exceptions. But there isn't enough - and nowhere near as much as they used to be. I miss BALLADS......when tempo was allowed to fluctuate. Now days, it's against the rules to "rit". Lots of pulse in today's drum corps music, but where is the heart?

[actucker]

How did we do it in the 80s? Does anybody remember? I do. I'll wait to see if anyone answers...

By not being spread across the field as much, or changing listening environments nearly as quickly.

Oh I have. and I do.

The rest of your rant would suggest that you don't pay very close attention.

Buddy controlled the tempo - and it breathed. Which is why the band swung so hard

And yet, they are known for being precise to the point of almost being too perfect (exactly what you're railing against). Again, bad example. His playing with his band was some of the least musical playing Buddy ever did.

Told you I was going to hurt some feelings. But understand, I don't mean all battery percussionists. There are some phenominal musicians in the battery percussion world who's approach has always been different than most others. Thurston? Float? Where are you? (just to name two of many)

There you go again. "different than most". That's an insinuation that battery percussionists, in general, are not musicians. Otherwise, why would there be exceptions that you single out?

Oh but they are far more connected than you think.

Given that I teach/have taught in both circuits, I know exactly how connected they are. You're going to need to be more explicit if you want to draw some kind of sinister connection. Who are these "non-musicians" who are in charge? Last time I checked, the caption heads of drum corps are the ones running rehearsals and designing the shows. If you think they are unmusical, you're going to have to explain to me how all of these guys "aren't musicians". You know, guys who teach music at major universities and play in the top ensembles in the country.

There are exceptions for sure - and I always enjoy those exceptions. But there isn't enough - and nowhere near as much as they used to be. I miss BALLADS......when tempo was allowed to fluctuate. Now days, it's against the rules to "rit". Lots of pulse in today's drum corps music, but where is the heart?

Again, tempo fluctuation does not equal music. Expression is what makes things musical. Tempo is a way to do that, and there are plenty of shows that have those fluctuations built in. There are a lot of other ways to create music, and those are all explored pretty extensively in modern drum corps. I'm sorry that it doesn't fit your mold from the 80s, but just because you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't mean its not there.

[MisterA]

I can kind of understand where you are coming from. Your endpoint is that you feel the music is more mechanical than musical. I guess you can kind of blame the entire activity in general for that. Corps try to achieve the best performance they can while trying the achieve the best possible score as well. The problem is when you have 100-115 musicians performing on the field, if you aren't in perfect time with each other, you will end up with one jumbled up mess. There are corps over the years that have been a little more lax with these issues, and some have still had some great performances, and been crowd pleasers. And some shows are designed in a much more flexible way. Jersey Surf a couple of years ago is a perfect example of this. From a technical standpoint, this show was nowhere near the level of the top 12 corps, but with the flexibility of the show, it didn't have to be. But the crowd absolutely loved it, and the kids had a show they should have been extremely proud of. It is great to see corps that aren't going to win putting out amazing shows that gets people off their feet at the end. My guess would be at the start of the season that year, even Surf probably used Dr. Beat. But you still get much different results than when corps like Crown or Cadets use it. I don't think Dr. Beat has much to do with the mechanical feel of the shows, I personally feel like it has been a designer choice with musical selections. And I think the variety of the shows between different corps is part of what makes this activity great, and helps bring a wider diversity of people to become involved with the activity.

[Huntington Mallets]

Yes, you're right. For 20 years we've heald to a "standard" in our rehearsal technique that involves mechanical naziism. It's time to change that standard.....because I want to hear some music for once.

Then go start your own band.

[Huntington Mallets]

And are you insinuating this is what the Crossmen teaching staff should be like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=covUesgI6fA

That's what I'm getting from it. Because this is how Buddy Rich was.