C.Holland Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I honestly think there's a bit of "nothing is new anymore" here. We've seen so many great ideas in the 80s, then the 90s stole them and tweaked them, and then the 00s did the same thing, that i think we've seen most everything that can be humanly done so far. How many variations of the Zpull, Reverse Z pull, or W pull, Pi Pull...etc etc etc can you come up with? I think its getting tough coming up with new ways to create contrary motion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I personally thought Spirit of Atlanta's 2011 film reel sequence was MUCH more impressive than BD's this year.....but maybe that's just me. hmmmm many did think it was a bit cheezy ..but hey even 2011 is ancient history BUT ,I would disagree on ANY comparison to BD.....with due respect.....not even close..jmo Edited July 21, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Judging philosophy today states that you get no credit for merely attempting something...it *must* be achieved to be credited. When fully achieved content is realized, the one with better or more cohesive design scores higher. This is a very helpful explanation, but it begs the question: what does "achieved" really mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Blue Devils 2014 - The movie reel drill (about 30 seconds in). Amazing lead up to it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UA9kav8F_Y With all due respect, what is so amazing about that? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I personally thought Spirit of Atlanta's 2011 film reel sequence was MUCH more impressive than BD's this year... but maybe that's just me. I don't know if it was more impressive, but certainly more innovative (although for all I know some marching band did it first), and it is good to note that just as Oregon Crusaders' show this year must have been inspired by Raiders' show last year, so BD apparently liked what Spirit was doing in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Because the caption stopped being "Marching and Maneuvering" about 30 years ago. Visual means visual, not just drill, and the Blue Devils were the first to figure out that drill does not have to be the skeleton of the show upon which you hang all the other elements. In fact, the Blue Devils visual approach is more staging based: they figure out who and where everyone needs to be at a particular point in the show, almost like storyboarding a movie. Then the dance, drill, and everything else fills in the blanks. A lot of people disagree with the change, and that's a matter of personal opinion. But the simple fact remains that the Visual sheets make no requirement that drill be the mainstay of your visual program. I think this best sums up the change. I will also add to this that, as others have said, execution means more now than content. Both are important, and you can't have a crappy show with easy music and drill and expect to win once it's cleaned. But you don't need over-the-top demand either. You need logical show design, effective visual (as noted above) that helps you present your show (staging), and you need to get CLEAN fast. It seems emphasis has been put on quality, not quantity. So design and execution will typically beat clutter and demand. If you're going to have lots of demand then you'd better also have excellent design and you better have enough time to clean. Cadets and Cavaliers are not dumb. They figured out that what they were doing in the 90s and early 2000s would not win today. BD comes out fast and clean, and usually with excellent design, even if it's not everyone's cup of tea. They hit you hard and fast, and catching them takes time and lots of talent. Few have the talent, and a show that is overly demanding can take a long time to clean. It's a roll of the dice...once you clean there is no guarantee that the judges will like your GE better, or that you brass and percussion and guard will be good enough to compete with BD. There is a good and bad here. The Good: I personally like seeing clean shows again. That was one of the nice things about the TIC system and the era of the 70s and early 80s. Come finals you saw some really clean shows. So I truly appreciate that Cadets and BD have given us top-notch performances all season regardless of whether they have our favorite show. Crown isn't executing too badly, and SCV and Bluecoats look amazing! The Bad: A lack of allowing the drill to be the bedrock of the show (or even the music). Many shows today use lots of effect-like writing in the music book to enhance staging, narration, props, and other designs. I actually like some of that, but with one thing you lose another. Finally, I will say that aside from the judging changes or emphasis, I do believe there has been a lot of movement in design toward integrating all these new toys and ideas that we see infiltrating the activity. Electronics, narration, props, uniform changes, synth effects, vocals, and lots of body movement. Crown took a lot of what Star of Indiana did in 1993 and has run with it. Other corps are using it as well. It's all a matter of taste and what you find exciting. Many love it. The younger generation of kids seem to like it, and even some old timers (like me) like it when it's done well; but the effect on drill is clearly noted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Because the caption stopped being "Marching and Maneuvering" about 30 years ago. Visual means visual, not just drill, and the Blue Devils were the first to figure out that drill does not have to be the skeleton of the show upon which you hang all the other elements. In fact, the Blue Devils visual approach is more staging based: they figure out who and where everyone needs to be at a particular point in the show, almost like storyboarding a movie. Then the dance, drill, and everything else fills in the blanks. A lot of people disagree with the change, and that's a matter of personal opinion. But the simple fact remains that the Visual sheets make no requirement that drill be the mainstay of your visual program. Great point, and I completely agree with it. That said, I feel like Michael Gaines was blessed with an ability to creatively 1) stage the music ensemble, 2) stage the color guard, and 3) come up with fantastic unified moments of visual GE. I think it can be argued that many groups are excelling at meeting the first two criteria, but not the last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC_Contra Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 With all due respect, what is so amazing about that? I really have to agree... I was discussing this a few weeks back when I ran into a friend of mine who I marched with at FIU (he's now a show and drill designer, he marched quite a few years at Kiwanis), and what hit me is that I really dislike the drill that has become common since about the early-mid 2000s. All it's become is rotating lines, a box, rotate the box, divide the box into four boxes and rotate them into one large box, form more rectilnear forms, blah blah blah. This segment of BD, in what, 40 seconds, just did all of that. Snore. I MISS CURVILINEAR FORMS!!!! FRENCH CURVES!!! Reshapes, blind pass-throughs... if you look at what you guys were talking about (the glory era of Cadets drill, etc.), THIS IS WHAT IS MISSING. The new stuff is much easier to clean because hey, cleaning lines and boxes is just proper technique - dress and cover down. It's also obviously more exposed for this same reason, so if you do it right the judges will slavishly "dole teh pointz" on the score sheets for achievement. But free-form drill and amoeba shapes, the constant movement and motion in non-linear forms made for a big wow moment when the corps would finally do a big rotating block. Who remembers all the hoopla when SCV 1999 did those two rotating box formations, the one halfway and the other just at the closing? This is why. Watch the rest of just that show, and you'll see that they make a "moment" out of the rectilinear forms whenever they show up, they dole them out like candy. Now? It's the first 30 seconds of the opener, so the rest has no impact, there's nothing to contrast it with. My friend says this trend will unfortunately continue as the next generation of designers just know what they experienced, so we'll be headed for more of the same. Sigh. More? Watch one of my favorite shows, Cadets 1992. Hell, any Cadets show really until the 2000's, they're as guilty as everyone else of this now, even though they were the innovators of what we lament the loss of. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyCrusader Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Whopper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caliswift Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 With all due respect, what is so amazing about that? Ditto. I get it's not easy. But what's "amazing"? In 30 years we going to talk about the BD Circle move? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.