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Madison Scouts: fan base/alumni philosophy


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I posted this in another thread about some Madison design-team hires, and thought I'd open it up for a broader audience. I don't have any pretense, flame-bait, argumentative reasoning, etc. I'm just curious:

Are Madison Scouts alumni & die hard fan base satisfied with what Madison has been doing under Mason's tenure? Have you been entertained by Scouts' shows? Are you content with Scouts playing "to the fans," so to speak, but scoring in the bottom of Finals, or would you prefer that they cater more to the judges/sheets possibly at the expense of crowd-pleasing? Obviously in a perfect world Scouts would do all-of-the-above, but in an either/or situation where do you stand?

I'm not a Scouts alum or super-fan; I'm genuinely curious what their fan base thinks about their designs the last couple of years. It seems to me from a design stand-point they've been behind many of the other Finalists, but if their base prefers entertaining + Finals and is willing to give up competitive edge for that, I find that interesting. I know in the 90's there was a contingent of members & staff from Madison who seemingly didn't care about placements as long as crowds were giving it up for them nightly; is that mentality still thriving in Madison with fans?

Madison, in my mind, has always been one of those corps whose Finals scores/placements always had a mental asterisk with it: for example, in 1997 sure they were 6th, but that was just a fun show to watch every night who cares where it ended up? Drum corps shouldn't necessarily live/die with Finals placement, but at the end of the day the competitive nature generally drives the activity. Now-a-days is it OK for Scouts to hover around 10-8 placement as long as they go for entertainment, or should they "play the game" and foucs on moving up the ranks?

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Here is what I posted in the other thread.

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For me, In want them to perform the show that the crowd talks about/sings as they leave the stadium. I always want them to be the crowd favorite. You are correct that in a perfect world, they can achieve that, and place in the upper end of the activity.

What I would REALLY like to see, is for them to lead a resurgence in shows that play to the crowd and have big, powerful, WOW moments (in my mind at least). Can DCI turn in that direction, who knows. If it can, I would like to see Madison to lead the way.

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I would we fine with a corps hovering around 5/6 and playing entertaining shows because I know they'd still be getting the talent pool to perform the shows to their full potential. I have doubts Madison is getting that same talent pool hanging around the bottom of the top 12 so I'd like to see SOME competitive improvement.

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To ask what the Scouts alumni base feels about what direction the corps should go is like asking what the people of the United States feel about politics.

Some feel we should screw tradition and play the game of cluttering the field with crap and write a drill around dodging said crap. Some say bring back the 75 or 88 show "with a modern touch" and scores be ######. I'm in the middle somewhere and as an optimist think that entertainment value will eventually trump all in DCI. To me that means music will again drive shows and get the most value on the GE sheets. I hope the Scouts will move to the top again with people leaving the show feeling the Scouts were not only the most entertaining but also the best corps on the field that night. Now if the judges could just have a sit down with me I'm sure we could get it all straightened out.

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Well said Mike!

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Well first off every alum/fan is going to be different. But here's my thoughts:

In terms of Mason's tenure, as a whole it felt much less like a Madison corps and more like a Star corps who was trying desperately to play to the fans. Like Star 92 every season. It was... ok, but nowhere near what I wanted. You look at shows like the past few Spirit corps that made finals or stuff like Crown 2007 and you wonder why Madison can't bring that same power.

2010 was probably my favorite out of all of them, mostly because it wasn't pretending to be bigger than it was. It was a show about the 2010 Madison Scouts. It had great drill and music, and it was fun to watch. 2011-13 was honestly pretty forgettable. I was rooting for Madison but had very little attachment to any of the shows. Again, it just felt like Star 92. 2014 was weird if just because it had some of my favorite rep with poor design choices that held it back. It definitely had the most talented corps out of any of the Mason years, but the interpretation of the show theme was just never mature enough to break into a new level.

I like what the drumline was able to accomplish from 10-14. The brassline, while incredibly talented, was always given books that didn't feel very "Madison". They felt much more... uh... well they felt like they were arranged by Robert W. Smith. The guard had some great moments every year, but just never really had the most mature book out there.

So most of my complaints have to do with design choices. Everything felt either safe or inefficient. A lack of maturity in the design program seemed to always lead to lower finals placements than desired.

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I have disagree. I felt that they did a nice job of reconnecting with the brand while working toward making it work in the current artistic environment. I really liked each of the shows during Jim's time with the corps. Granted, I'm a total homer, but for me, they worked.

The goal now is to take that re-established brand, and move it forward n the current artistic environment. The goal is also to be " Loud, proud, and entertaining the crowd"!

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DCI should come into the 21st century, scrap these old judging sheets that have only been altered around the edges since the 70's, and put in place a judging system that rewards communication with the audience. If a show leaves most audiences scratching these heads going " what was THAT all about ", ( even if well executed), lower that score on the sheets. That would be a start, imo.... reward shows that connect to audiences, not just with 4-13 judges in attendance on any given night.

And can we dispense once and for all with this false notion that the judges are the best arbiters of what communicates well ? Just look at the GE caption scores from the current judges this season. The scores and placements in many cases in the same shows are all over the lot. So much so thats its obvious that even the judges themselves can't agree with one another on what they are hearing and watching and applying it intelligently to the sheets before them. So if they can't agree, why are the thousands of ticket purchasers any less knowledgeable on which shows communicate the Corps intended themes well, and which didn't ?

Corps below the G7 are all naturally confused on which road to take, as one judge is telling them to take one road, and another judge another road. The non G7 Corps confusion on what shows to put out because it seems to me the judges are confused among themselves on what to reward and what not to reward.

In such a confused state of judging affairs, my hope is that the Madison Scouts puts out a show next season under a new regime that is visually and musically appealing to most national audiences, and even more importantly, a theme that can be clearly understood by even the typical child or teenager. Just do that, while DCI goes thru the process of replacing their older judges on their last rodeo now with newer, younger judges.

Edited by BRASSO
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I'm certainly no expert but I'm not sure why people think it's difficult to design a show that works both musically and visually. So if you have to write a show that DCI rewards with scores, and you would like to be more competitive, then clearly that's what you need to do. Bluecoats entertained my beyond belief with an awesome music first show and finished second. Crown last year. In fact if you really think about it, there have been some amazing musical shows in the top 6 for several years running. Point is, it can be done, and done in a way that blows the house down. While some feel Madison's music has been the strong point of the corps of late, I agree however it hasn't been top 6 good. My perspective, I'd like to see them more competitive than having 9th place being the highest finish in a 9 year run.

Edited by BlueByYou2000
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I'm certainly no expert but I'm not sure why people think it's difficult to design a show that works both musically and visually.

I don't know, maybe its because a few dozen Corps not named.... " Blue Devils "... are STILL trying to figure out the consistent winning formula " that works both musically and visually" that you apparently believe its not difficult to do.

Edited by BRASSO
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