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The World's First and Only Bb Soprano Bugle


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2 hours ago, Bruckner8 said:

I'm a fan of the French Horn G Bugle, no matter how unwieldy...gimme a section of those!

I played one for 11 of the 12 seasons I marched, in junior corps and DCA all-age corps.  I'm a fan, too!!!  LOL

Those #### things were tough to keep under control... but man, in the right hands (bolded for Corpsband....:tongue:)... meaning the players, and the arrangers... what a sound.  

Our principal arranger when I was on French horn with DCA's Sunrisers.... John Arietano... had a real knack for writing for the midrange voices. He tended to use our French horn line as an upper baritone voice, a mid-or-lower mellophone voice, or a voice all our own... many times all three in the same song. Made it fun to play his stuff!!!

Gotta be honest here, at the risk of sounding egotistical.... we (Sun) had one heck of a Frenchie line when I was there.  We had one guy, my first two years there, 1977-78,  who was one of the best I've ever heard on that instrument, DCI, DCA, anywhere in drum corps... and the rest of us were solid "line players" who worked really well as a team and got it done.

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14 hours ago, Ghost said:

What type of brass instruments does the Commandant's Own use?

They are on two valves Kanstul G bugles.  They got two sets about two years ago and they will continue to use the two valvers unless there are no manufactures left. 

They have spoke to me about a year ago asking me if I can produce them if Kanstul go under.  I told them "Let's hope Kanstul survives and thrives."  

If that happens, I can produce them.  The factory I work with is very capable,  

 

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12 hours ago, corpsband said:

IMO if product A helps an ensemble play in tune better than product B,  the so-called advantages of B become irrelevant.     Why is it better to be loudly out-of-tune?  

If that's the case, why is Jupiter still in the game?  

Why is BD still with King instead of using Yamaha?  

In my opinion, Yamaha have nothing on Kanstul, but very few groups uses them.

Until the day Drum Corps International becomes Marching Band International, the desire to hear the bugle sound will never go away.  


 

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12 hours ago, eightyonepointthree said:

Consistency is the key.  The horns have to match EXACTly.  That is why the Yamaha lines sound so good.  You can play 20 yamaha trumpets and they will feel exactly the same.

Different type of horns suits different type of music.  

If you want to hear a very nice concert band on the field, Yamaha is the go to horn. .

However, if you intend to play Malaguena, Spanish Fantasy, Malaga, or La Fiesta, those Xeno will not do the job.  Perhaps that's why drum corps no longer play these type of adrenalin pumping, angry music. 

The activity have definitely changed, but a lot of things eventually go retro when idea runs out.  

 

Edited by Vance
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11 hours ago, Vance said:

Different type of horns suits different type of music.  

If you want to hear a very nice concert band on the field, Yamaha is the go to horn. .

However, if you intend to play Malaguena, Spanish Fantasy, Malaga, or La Fiesta, those Xeno will not do the job.  Perhaps that's why drum corps no longer play these type of adrenalin pumping, angry music. 

The activity have definitely changed, but a lot of things eventually go retro when idea runs out.  

 

music like this?  

imo the "sound" of brass lines is far more varied since the switch.   BD, Cadets, Crown all have very distinctive characteristic tonal qualities  that were not quite so distinct in the "G" era.   what's NOT more varied is that -- as @Bruckner8 pointed out -- is how far  "down the line" you can go and still hear a corps play in tune.   used to be just a handful in the G era,  now it's many, many more.   no doubt  bugles sounded different -- but mostly in a bad way.  of course i haven't heard a full line of andalucia bugles live, so i don't know they will be similar to the older bugles.  

 

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11 hours ago, Vance said:

If that's the case, why is Jupiter still in the game?  

Why is BD still with King instead of using Yamaha?  

In my opinion, Yamaha have nothing on Kanstul, but very few groups uses them.

Until the day Drum Corps International becomes Marching Band International, the desire to hear the bugle sound will never go away.  


 

multiple manufactures exist because of price points and sponsorships.  

you're right that there will always be people nostalgic for the past.  but just because it's older doesn't make it better.  

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On 1/17/2017 at 11:18 AM, corpsband said:

IMO if product A helps an ensemble play in tune better than product B,  the so-called advantages of B become irrelevant.     Why is it better to be loudly out-of-tune?  

This is a red herring and is being used as a catch-all argument against G bugles. It's disingenuous at best and ridiculous at worst. I heard plenty of hornlines play in tune on G bugles. You don't hear overtones without horns playing in tune.

 

Stop being lazy in your responses. You'be got BoaDci parroting your words when he clearly has stated that he hasn't heard the two in person. The change to Bb instruments completely changed the activity and it had NOTHING to do with intonation.

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23 hours ago, Bruckner8 said:

My take on the G vs Bb debate, after marching and teaching both of them, at very high and low levels of placement:

1) BITD, there were only a few EXCELLENT hornlines any given year. Today, the degradation of quality happens much further down the placements. Compare any 6th place hornline from the 90s with a 6th place hornline today (especially lot videos), and I think you'll agree that the modern 6th place hornline sounds better.

Why? I suspect that B-flats are easier to play (smaller) and the players are more familiar with them, thus it doesn't take all summer to find the center!

2) Only when the Bb hornlines grew to 80 members (with 16 contras) did I stop longing for G bugles. Those who say they can't tell the difference, I envy you. I didn't even pay attention to drum corps between 2000 and 2006 (cuz i hated the 64-member Bb hornlines). By 2006, I was on staff (Bloo), vouching for larger contra lines, euphs, and larger hornlines. Finally, Crown made it crystal clear in 2008, and I didn't have to argue anymore. I've enjoyed all of the 80-member hornlines since then.

Why? Acoustically, the "chorus effect" of having more players, combined with the larger ratio of contras has compensated for the large bores (but smaller numbers) of the G Bugle lines. Granted, I miss listening to the keys of C and G (awful on Bb), but the color change isn't as drastic (and I'm getting old...probably can't hear as well!)

All great points. 

One thing that is missed in many of the discussions about early multi-key versus today is that the manufacturers have not stood still in designing and building larger and better horns in Bb/F for outdoor use by both corps and bands. The horns used in DCI today are far superior to the horns used in 2000, the first year multi-key was permitted.   

Edited by MikeD
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1 hour ago, BigBadMadMan said:

This is a red herring and is being used as a catch-all argument against G bugles. It's disingenuous at best and ridiculous at worst. I heard plenty of hornlines play in tune on G bugles. You don't hear overtones without horns playing in tune.

Sure there were horn lines that played in tune on G's.  I don't think I've ever said otherwise.  Some teams had it all figured out.  

The point is...

Did you hear more horn lines play in tune on G bugles or Bb's ? (answer is bloody obvious)

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