chris ncsu Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Yeah, I think I agree with you. As an educator I love the thought that any given night, with the right performance, you can make history. I also love the thought that if something goofy happened at Quarters or Semis, it doesn't matter the following night: you (kind of) start from scratch and just go for it without having to think at all about the previous night. I would imagine it is at least somewhat of a disappointment if a percussion section, for example, has the show of the summer Finals night, wins the caption Finals night, but losing the Sanford trophy because of averages. I think this happened with Cadets 1994, where the outscored BD Finals night but BD won the trophy because of averages, but I could be wrong. If that's true, then it would be even more of a bummer since Quarters were 'rained out' for the top 6 or so & not judged (only standstills), meaning there was one less show in the mix which might've made the difference in Cadets winning the trophy. But I do also like consistency, and especially with percussion where there are two judges per-night, I like the thought of a judge having to try a LOT harder if they want to swing a caption win one way or the other: it seemingly helps take bias out of the equation at least a little bit and takes absolute "power" of judges out of their hands slightly. DCI has seemingly gone back-and-forth quite a bit between averages vs Finals performance (I can't remember the last Finals that were not averages, though I'm pretty sure when I marched in the late 90's Caption awards were given for Finals score and not averages). I always feel like that unless were instructors or directors, I.E. the people absolutely affected the most by rules, this is someone else's game and we're just watching from the side (literally). If they feel this is best, who are we to argue? I THINK The Cadets were "screwed" in drums in both 1993 and 1994 -- I thought they won the average in 1993 but it was finals-only winner (Star), and they won finals in 1994 but it was average winner (BD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbeau Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Crown wins! As a Crown fan, this works for me for 2015. Of course, WHEN Crowns in Saturday night in 2016, I'd rather do it the cleaner way - beat everyone so convincingly, that even the judges succumb to awarding the rightful winner next time around.drumcorpsfever gets it right. You need to win clean and win on finals night. BD clearly won on finals night 2015. Crown needs to work harder if they want to win on finals night 2016. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TvilleDevil Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) And I absolutely agree that BD would likely figure out how to win regardless of the system. The only question is: what were they doing "wrong" in 1987-1993, when they only once placed as high as third [/quotcome] No Scott Johnson, and they picked up Todd Ryan from Star in 94. Edited August 20, 2015 by TvilleDevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownCrusaders Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Yeah I'm gonna say no. BD's finals performance was a considerable improvement over their previous two performances. They fought to make it happen. Your system would make it very difficult for anyone to ever make a well deserved leap in finals. Crown was awesome, and I loved their show! However, they weren't the best corps on Saturday. That's what matters. Your signature makes me happy beyond belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownCrusaders Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 A reconstruction of the 2015 DCI World Class Championship's 3 days of competition results in Carolina Crown winning the Founder's Trophy. I have 2 theses in support of Crown's victory. The first is that the Founder's Trophy should be awarded to the corps with the highest average score as a result of averaging their respective scores from all 3 days of competition. This is the fair basis for the awarding the Angelica, Brazale, Ott, Sanford and Zingali caption winners and, arguably, should be the basis for the Founder's Trophy as well. If applied, the top 5 average scores would be 1. 96.775 Carolina Crown, 2. 96.542 Blue Devils, 3. 95.975 Bluecoats, 4. 95.625 The Cadets and 5. 93.525 SCV. Parenthetically, if Los Diablos had not incurred the 0.50 penalty in the Prelims, the reconstructed order be the same but BD's average would be 96.708. The second thesis is that the Ordinal for each corps' placement during each of the 3 days of competition should be a confirming factor in determining the champion, with the lowest aggregated ordinal winning the championship. If applied, the top 5 would be First : Carolina Crown (4), Second : Blue Devils (7), Third : Bluecoats (9), Fourth : The Cadets (10) and Fifth : SCV (15). Also, common sense should dictate that a corps such as Carolina Crown, which finished first, first and second, respectively, in Prelims, Semis and Finals should be accorded the edge over a corps, the Blue Devils, which finished fourth, second and first ( or if the 0.50 penalty is ignored, second, second and first ). Hail Crown! Now, onto A Modest Proposal, Part 2 : The Cadets Win the Fred Sanford Best Percussion Award in 2015. Then phantom doesn't win in 2008. I wish crown would have won but the system is fine the way it is. No other competitive event averages scores or other things to get the champion. I think it should be a tie breaker though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc5682 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 A reconstruction of the 2015 DCI World Class Championship's 3 days of competition results in Carolina Crown winning the Founder's Trophy. I have 2 theses in support of Crown's victory. The first is that the Founder's Trophy should be awarded to the corps with the highest average score as a result of averaging their respective scores from all 3 days of competition. This is the fair basis for the awarding the Angelica, Brazale, Ott, Sanford and Zingali caption winners and, arguably, should be the basis for the Founder's Trophy as well. If applied, the top 5 average scores would be 1. 96.775 Carolina Crown, 2. 96.542 Blue Devils, 3. 95.975 Bluecoats, 4. 95.625 The Cadets and 5. 93.525 SCV. Parenthetically, if Los Diablos had not incurred the 0.50 penalty in the Prelims, the reconstructed order be the same but BD's average would be 96.708. The second thesis is that the Ordinal for each corps' placement during each of the 3 days of competition should be a confirming factor in determining the champion, with the lowest aggregated ordinal winning the championship. If applied, the top 5 would be First : Carolina Crown (4), Second : Blue Devils (7), Third : Bluecoats (9), Fourth : The Cadets (10) and Fifth : SCV (15). Also, common sense should dictate that a corps such as Carolina Crown, which finished first, first and second, respectively, in Prelims, Semis and Finals should be accorded the edge over a corps, the Blue Devils, which finished fourth, second and first ( or if the 0.50 penalty is ignored, second, second and first ). Hail Crown! Now, onto A Modest Proposal, Part 2 : The Cadets Win the Fred Sanford Best Percussion Award in 2015. Hogwash - there would hardly be any chance of a corps having a great performance on Finals night and winning if they were in second or 3rd after semis. I know it does not happen often but ask 87 Cadets or 96 Phantom or the others that have given a kickbutt show on Finals night to take the trophy. I do not think they should average the scores for the caption awards either. They have not always done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwoody Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Common sense should dictate that the corps who wins on Saturday night at finals should ALWAYS be awarded the DCI Championship. If you can't win the big show, you don't deserve the big trophy. Problem with this is the fact we would be back to having the chance of a tie. The way the system is prevents ties which people #####ed about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwoody Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I know after finals everyone has a gripe with how shows are judged and how they feel their corps got screwed. Happens every year. I agree the caption awards should be just from finals performance. But having winner take all on finals night just takes us back to ties and we will all be here complaining about that problem all over again. It's a been there done that situation. Nothing was more unfair to a corps than doing all the work to wind up in a tie. All sports have tie breakers. Don;t want to be at another finals and have to hear." We have a tie". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I have no problem with ties on finals night. One of the happiest moments of my life was when my two favorite drum corps tied in 99 and I told the SCV director that was going to happen in February of that year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Problem with this is the fact we would be back to having the chance of a tie. The way the system is prevents ties which people #####ed about. In 44 years, there have been 3 ties. People will survive. What is far more ridiculous to me and something I hope I never see in my lifetime is a corps being announced in 2nd or 3rd place at finals and then being awared the DCI championship trophy. That is the very definition of bull####. Edited August 21, 2015 by seen-it-all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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