If It Were Like it Used To Be?

[GUARDLING]

History is the most interesting of all subjects since it encompasses everything else. (I suppose I have to say that as it was my undergraduate major.)

I have seen a film of drum corps in the '20s, and am reasonably certain that the WWI veterans who populated those units would have been thoroughly baffled by the 1965 Royal Airs. To most them, it just wouldn't be drum corps.

Today we are as removed in time from the pre-DCI era as those old boys were from "Watermelon Man".

Interesting, no?

They are all our forefathers and mothers and deserve our honor and respect. You can't choose your ancestors.

this is very true and I agree, but respect doesnt mean ignore the fact of the FACTS. we can all respect the past but understand what worked and what didn't at the time as well as to move forward.

Members today need to know the history as well as respect those who came before. Afterall if not for them there would be no activity BUT respect is a 2 way street , not one way and IMO those from the past need to respect the fact that if not for those form other decades there also would be nothing today

.Of course many do and of course there are those who don't, but the topic of the thread was asked " If it were like it used to be " which to me anyway might be a bit silly because it can never be period. One change in time influences another.

We all love our what if's in this activity, what if our corps ( who may have lost ) had just 1 more week, what if we went on later, what if we went on earlier, what if what if what if we wore different socks..lol..Well bottom line is we didnt so why the what if's, whats it do....nothing..lol

OK it can be entertaining I guess..lol

Youre right though each generation may not even recognize the next but sometimes it does anger me when they cant at least respect it. That goes on both ends.

Edited September 19, 2015 by GUARDLING

[MikeD]

Corps had been giving the veterans the single digit salute since the 1930s. The vets said, "No valves!". The corps got valves. The vets said, "No pulling slides!". The corps pulled slides. (e.g. The Syracuse Brigadiers concert tune, "I wonder what became of Sally" in 1955). The vets frowned on BAC's marimba in IIRC 1966, even though Madison had competed with Glockenspiels since forever. The vets, most particularly Tony S, were thoughtlessly obstructionist at times. They also were like the Church, in that they never just sat down with the corps and explained the reasoning behind their apparently capricious rulings. It might have helped if they had been more forthcoming, but they weren't.

The fact that 95+% of all the corps that existed prior to DCI are no longer in existence proves, to me at least, that the vets, and Tony were basically right, and that DCI is basically wrong in their approach to the community function that drum corps were originally intended to perform. It's only old farts like me that GAS. The cool aid drinkers are serenely blissful.

Most of those 95% of corps from pre-DCI that no longer exist had little, if anything, to do with DCI, so really, you proved the opposite.

[elphaba01]

"Interesting?":

VERY INTERESTING!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!!!

Elphaba

WWW

[JimF-LowBari]

Tried to start a FB conversation about what is the current status of your old corps sponsor (AL/VFW/church/etc). No one responded.

From my reading, living thru the 70s Srs scene and experiencing it first hand in Harrisburg (including info sessions on the subject) I'd say rising expenses and what caused decline of many cities had more to do with it.

Edited September 20, 2015 by JimF-LowBari

[reallyoldfrt]

Don't look now, guys, but there's da&n little left now. And the currently popular "societal fluxuations" argument contains just enough truth to make it seem plausible if you're pre-disposed to believe it. The original basic concept behind the rise of drum corps was as a small, community based, inexpensive activity for ordinary humans, who had no desire to "be serious" about music. Other than the elite units, it was perhaps the collective faults of the hundreds of "ordinary humans corps" for not totally shunning the elitist few.

Unfortunately that didn't happen. Many of us strongly advocated that course.

We all began as eager amateurs, and wished devoutly to retain our amateur standing. Whether we worshipped at the alter of Tony S, or not, we were immediately singled out as being" part of the problem" by those, to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld, "Drum Corps Nazis". As with Ironlips, my undergraduate major was history. A couple of points should be raised. Prior to DCI drum corps was in a constant state of striving for survival. Corps formed, and other corps disbanded with regularity. It was almost never about finances. Corps were cheap to operate. It was one of the prime raisons d'etre of drum corps. After DCI it was ALL ABOUT money. Many national caliber units, who had been in existence for over 20 years in 1972, folded within a season or two, strictly for financial reasons. e.g. Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights, a charter member of DCI, didn't survive long enough to enter a single championship contest.

DCI, as we suspected they might, scapegoated thousands of us eager amateurs. They threw out the baby with the bath water in their eagerness to cleanse and purify the original concept of drum corps, and mold it into something exalted, and available only to the anointed professionals. They shamelessly devoured the acceptable personnel of the ordinary human corps, putting added survival pressure on those outside the inner circle. Nearly every new "innovation", and management stricture they put in place was designed to increase costs and therefore force more "unworthy" units to disband. It was, I believe, a calculated measure of drum corps genocide.

I had originally thought that they were honest sincere folks who got a little carried away in the initial rush of power, and would soon recognize the damage they'd done, and take corrective measures. I was an optimist.....or perhaps, naive.

Many of them are truly evil people, who set out to destroy we poor folks who were just having fun. Whether they actually enjoyed watching the pain and anguish they were causing is unknown. Since 1972 hundreds of thousands of kids and volunteers have been systematically excluded from whatever that "activity" is that the powers-that-be have created. Thank God it's not drum corps. I knew drum corps, and DCI ain't it.

Edited September 20, 2015 by reallyoldfrt

[GUARDLING]

Don't look now, guys, but there's da&n little left now. And the currently popular "societal fluxuations" argument contains just enough truth to make it seem plausible if you're pre-disposed to believe it. The original basic concept behind the rise of drum corps was as a small, community based, inexpensive activity for ordinary humans, who had no desire to "be serious" about music. Other than the elite units, it was perhaps the collective faults of the hundreds of "ordinary humans corps" for not totally shunning the elitist few.

Unfortunately that didn't happen. Many of us strongly advocated that course.

We all began as eager amateurs, and wished devoutly to retain our amateur standing. Whether we worshipped at the alter of Tony S, or not, we were immediately singled out as being" part of the problem" by those, to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld, "Drum Corps Nazis". As with Ironlips, my undergraduate major was history. A couple of points should be raised. Prior to DCI drum corps was in a constant state of striving for survival. Corps formed, and other corps disbanded with regularity. It was almost never about finances. Corps were cheap to operate. It was one of the prime raisons d'etre of drum corps. After DCI it was ALL ABOUT money. Many national caliber units, who had been in existence for over 20 years in 1972, folded within a season or two, strictly for financial reasons. e.g. Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights, a charter member of DCI, didn't survive long enough to enter a single championship contest.

DCI, as we suspected they might, scapegoated thousands of us eager amateurs. They threw out the baby with the bath water in their eagerness to cleanse and purify the original concept of drum corps, and mold it into something exalted, and available only to the anointed professionals. They shamelessly devoured the acceptable personnel of the ordinary human corps, putting added survival pressure on those outside the inner circle. Nearly every new "innovation", and management stricture they put in place was designed to increase costs and therefore force more "unworthy" units to disband. It was, I believe, a calculated measure of drum corps genocide.

I had originally thought that they were honest sincere folks who got a little carried away in the initial rush of power, and would soon recognize the damage they'd done, and take corrective measures. I was an optimist.....or perhaps, naive.

Many of them are truly evil people, who set out to destroy we poor folks who were just having fun. Whether they actually enjoyed watching the pain and anguish they were causing is unknown. Since 1972 hundreds of thousands of kids and volunteers have been systematically excluded from whatever that "activity" is that the powers-that-be have created. Thank God it's not drum corps. I knew drum corps, and DCI ain't it.

You completely discarded the fact that corps did not have to join DCI they were long gone with very poor management. all due to themselves. Good intentions, for sure but that wasnt going to fly with the world changing. Yes we all were raw neighborhood kids. You ignore the fact that the neighborhood thing for many things were dying. You cant blame DCI or anyone for changing times. It's been said by other posters some circumstances of the times BUT you would rather blame the evil empire.

Drum Corps would all but be dead if it continued the way it was. How could anything survive if it couldnt recognize the world and the participants were changing. Talk about head in the sand.

Drum corps had no choice but to change, or die. There were also only a few corps in comparison to the numbers starting DCI . If the others were so in tune why didnt they all do something as a group of many hundreds.

Oh I miss the good ole days and the simplicity of life compared to today and would also love to pay 40 cents a gallon for gas and pay 30 cents for a loaf of bread but guess what THAT"S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, I loved what we had but todays drum corps is far beyond what we ever imagined it could be, from every aspect, talent, design, musically, visually. Thank God the days of squad turns, to the rear march, concert formations, inspections, etc etc are long gone ( and I did both )

You say it was cheap to run a corps YEAH SO, try running just a winter guard program today. Those budgets are as high as drum corps were back in the day if not higher and it has nothing to do with the activity but all to do with the world and what it takes to service a kid today.

This thinking is the reason the corps couldnt make it, narrow minded, small picture and the world is wrong. well how did it work out for those with that thought process.hmmmmm

This is also what I meant earlier when I said respect is a 2 way street.

[JimF-LowBari]

One word stuck out for me... inexpensive.... cost of outfitting even a small corps is a lot more expensive today even when taking inflation into effect. Used to be able to find used horns more readily and cheaply. Today not so much and if you want Gs, rotsa ruck.... And as for BSGK folding when DCI started from my understanding the Newark area was getting bad and that was hurting recruiting. That would be part of the social flux being discussed.

Also how did DCI contribute to the end of a lot of local Sr corps? Had a big drop off in the early/mid 70s too.

Edited September 20, 2015 by JimF-LowBari

[ironlips]

I agree with Guardling, 100% on this:

"Members today need to know the history as well as respect those who came before. Afterall if not for them there would be no activity BUT respect is a 2 way street , not one way and IMO those from the past need to respect the fact that if not for those form other decades there also would be nothing today."

In my view, it's up to us, the (gasp) elders, to provide the historical context but, equally important, to credit the current practitioners for preserving and yes, advancing, the activity.

My first bugle instructor (in 1960) was a WW I vet, Jim Donnelly. He had begun playing in the pre-valve era, invented the French Horn bugle, taught several national champions, arranged "Oaklahoma" for the Skyliners when no one was playing show tunes, and would have been considered a radical by the drum and bugle crowd from the Spanish American War. I was surrounded by dozens of WW II veterans when I joined the Sunrisers in 1963. Fourteen years later some were unhappy that my Garfield kids "sang on the field".

Now we have synths. O Bla Di, O Bla Da. We're lucky to have drum corps at all.

Edited September 20, 2015 by ironlips

[GUARDLING]

I agree with Guardling, 100% on this:

"Members today need to know the history as well as respect those who came before. Afterall if not for them there would be no activity BUT respect is a 2 way street , not one way and IMO those from the past need to respect the fact that if not for those form other decades there also would be nothing today."

In my view, it's up to us, the (gasp) elders, to provide the historical context but, equally important, to credit the current practitioners for preserving and yes, advancing, the activity.

My first bugle instructor (in 1960) was a WW I vet, Jim Donnelly. He had begun playing in the pre-valve era, invented the French Horn bugle, taught several national champions, arranged "Oaklahoma" for the Skyliners when no one was playing show tunes, and would have been considered a radical by the drum and bugle crowd from the Spanish American War. I was surrounded by dozens of WW II veterans when I joined the Sunrisers in 1963. Fourteen years later some were unhappy that my Garfield kids "sang on the field".

Now we have synths. O Bla Di, O Bla Da. We're lucky to have drum corps at all.

totally right IMO

[elphaba01]

"Lucky to Have Drum Corps at All":

Well said (As usual). Although I never had the honor of meeting Mr. Donnelly, or playing any of his music (Our cross town rival St Raphael's Buccaneers did), both Joe Genero and Hy Drietzer who wrote and taught for us in the Royal lancers talked about him often as well as mention Bill Hayes, the Mura's, (One of whom, I understand just died), Frank Bergdoll, , Scotty Chapell, and several others whose names escape me.

Elphaba

WWW