Corps 19-25 Placeing Higher

[C.Holland]

Lee R put it best. You want to keep your membership returning year to year? Give them the best possible experience for their money. A person leaves because they don't like their situation.

[cixelsyd]

Yes, and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence (until you actually get there and see for yourself).

But corpsband makes many valid points that whereas the finalist corps may have great advertising, word-of-mouth and prestige that might entice a member away, the corps the member is currently with has the opportunity to provide actual, tangible experiences during the entire camp and summer schedule - they have the best opportunity to fight against the siren song of finalist corps by giving their members the reasons to make them want to stay. Are there actual steps being taken, which the members can see for themselves, that will likely cause the corps to become more competitive? Or do the members merely get lip-service, simply being told why they should stay, without actually being shown all season long. If all they see is the same-old-same-old, then those who can move on will likely do so.mply hoping that next year's show design will be a better idea? Internal inertia is as much a cause as external obstacles.

I am not sure you understand the culture change that has taken place in drum corps.

Back in the day, drum corps were more like urban gangs (benevolent ones, of course). They flourished in more urban areas. They were often formed with the specific mission of giving area youth a constructive activity "to keep them off the streets". With that mission, membership was intended to be long term, and numerous policies and rituals were instituted by corps and the members themselves to reinforce that intention. Release rules were maintained in some circuits to prevent kids from freely leaving one corps for another. Socially, other corps were often considered the enemy, so as to discourage any thought of defecting to a rival unit. The idea of marching in a faraway corps was unthinkable back then. Travel was much more difficult and expensive, the season was longer, and corps were busier in the off-season, so you needed to live near your corps year round. The competitive dynamic was different too, as corps from all over routinely started with younger kids and, if they stayed together, climbed the competitive ladder over the years as they learned and gained experience.

Today, drum corps is different, and so are the members. Corps do less during the school year, but move in together when school is out. The Internet enables you to audition for a corps anywhere in the world without leaving your house, and winter rehearsal exercises and show music can be shared online. Today, members of different corps freely associate as friendly peers. Corps now have migrated to the suburbs, redirected their missions to become arts programs, and are populated by older kids who often have career plans involving the same sort of music education or performance arts that are components of the drum corps experience. Travel is easier and cheaper. It is not just possible, but desirable to some, to march in a faraway corps - akin to studying abroad. Each year is another opportunity to study with a different corps, and learn from more top instructors. In the same way music professionals list their teachers on their resume, marching with different corps adds to the resume of a corps member. Competition has also changed, with corps mired in roughly the same positions from year to year, so if a marcher wants to climb the competitive ladder as they get older and better, they do it by auditioning and making better corps over time.

[cixelsyd]

I know like I sound like a broken record here, but DCI is the only youth Competitive " sport " in the entire world that when one puts their money down for their child to participate in the competition, that THEY thus get to choose the team and the Coaches for their child.

Ever hear of collegiate sports?

Edited May 26, 2016 by cixelsyd

[cixelsyd]

Finals, with 12 corps is good. I've read on DCP in the past that the number (12) was because of the space available on the LP record. And, really, 12 is a good number. You get a great show from 12-7, get an intermission, and then the top dogs duke it out from there. I like it and don't think it has to change.

Some historical perspective would be useful.

"Twelve" originated from the American Legion some 80 years ago. Confronted with the prospect of nearly a hundred corps competing in prelims, the Legion determined that the purpose of prelims was to whittle the field down to a group of manageable size, still containing all the potential champions, and finals would be where the champion would be correctly determined. Having experimented with several other systems, including finals from 5 to 15 corps, two or three rounds of competition, and preliminary judging in either parade or field settings, the system that stuck starting in 1932 was the 12 corps final, with a preliminary round conducted on the field, but with shorter shows (roughly half the time per corps compared to finals).

As drum corps competition became a spectator attraction, its location and format took the audience into consideration. The idea of the finals being a reasonable length for someone to view from start to finish was not solely for the sake of the judges.

The founders of DCI were accustomed to VFW Nationals serving as their ultimate championship, and VFW followed the same practice that worked for the Legion in their prime - a 12 corps final with abbreviated prelim shows. The corps, by that time, had several reasons for wanting to change prelims to full length shows, but had no compelling reason to alter the number of finalists.

Much has changed since then. Drum corps competition is now organized by the corps themselves. While the veterans were content to stage a championship contest, the drum corps activity promotes more than just one contest or one champion. Preliminary rounds are also promoted and attended. A whole tour of contests is coordinated across the nation. Other corps besides just the winner attract fans, sponsors and accolades.

Also note that the competition is no longer merely about determining the correct champion. Correct ranking of all the other placements is also desired.

Thus, our expectations are very different from back in the day. We no longer expect DCI finals to be a side attraction for people attending a larger convention of veterans. Instead, it is for an audience of drum corps fans willing to pay peak ticket prices to see the ultimate contest of the year.

Our expectations of judges are also different now. We expect them to have the same mental intensity and stamina that the activity instills in its marchers, and so we now ask them to correctly rank and rate a full day of competitors, not just a three hour group.

So it is no surprise to me that we question the 12 corps final concept. We have changed the system in so many other ways, rightly or wrongly. Now we have three rounds at championships. All are full show presentations. Corps are seeded in something resembling reverse order of prevailing rank to facilitate closer comparisons (and reinforce expectations based on past results - "slotting"). We have critiques and recorded judge commentary. Varying access to recaps has been provided to corps, fans and judges over the years. The number of corps in every round of DCI competition has been tweaked numerous times... except for the final 12.

[cixelsyd]

There's elimination only at finals because..um.. it's finals! It's the end of the season and the format is designed to reward the corps who achieve the highest level of excellence. Of course you don't have finals mid-season.

We had prelims and finals at all kinds of other shows throughout the season for decades, before and during DCI, until just recently.

So maybe we should stop giving out medals to the top 3. After all -- it just reinforces that exclusivity.

Maybe we should. Why do we need medals, anyway? And why to 3 corps instead of 12? I think that was only to play along with the Olympian nature of the "Summer Music Games" marketing ploy that has long since been abandoned.

What's the point of having 3 shows in Indy if everyone competes every night? Might as well just have a single show and end it there. Highest score wins.

By your reasoning, why have any of the other 100 tour shows? For that matter, why have any contests in 2016? We just had a finals last year, so why have another one this year?

Maybe you disagree, but I think every one of these drum corps shows is justifiable. I believe there were 7,924 reasons for having another contest Thursday, and 11,570 reasons for the Friday show. Those were the ticket counts for those events.

Instead DCI (and most other forms of competition) use an elimination tournament to find the champion.

The DCI champion is determined by subjective judging among 12 contestants, not by elimination.

[BRASSO]

12 Corps seems like a good number for Finals. For retreats, they all can fit fullly compacted, but neatly, on the football field nicely., and it makes for a great color potpouri on the football field, Finals Night.... iconic in that respect. Its a round, even number, fits nicely into DVD packaged sales, and its worked well throughout the DCI and pre DCI years. I also sense little to no appetite to change the number outside of perhaps a few here. Plus, it really does nothing for the upward mobility prospects of the 19th to 40th placing Corps... which is the topic discussion at hand. Finally, the 12 selected for Finals is an arbitrary number. Similar in this respect to the G7 concept of a few years back that was cooked up, then scuttled. They chose " 7 ", but it just as easily could have been " 9"... or" 8 " or " 6 " or " 5" , or whatever. This too was an arbitrary number. DCI has 10 Corps that are now pretty much locks for Finals each summe., 95% of the time, its been these same 10 Corps for approx. 20 years now. The 12th Finals spot ( and sometimes the 11th ) are generally rotating spots most seasons now, where pretty much the same handful of 2-4 Corps battle it out for that coveted last 1 or 2 Finals Nite spot. This is the same at the top too.. where pretty much the same 2-4 Corps battle it out for first. There are anomaly years where typically 1 or 2 Corps rise up or down more than 4 placement positions from their usual pecking order. 95% of them however then return to their normative placement pecking order in succeeding years. its all pretty predictable, when looked at thru a 10-15 year prism lens now, although there is some competitive volatility at certain stages within that window timeline for all these Corps. So thats where we are, and probably where we will be at this time in 10-15 years for 95% of these Corps ( although as mentioned above, several of these 19th-40th placing Corps will most likely not be with us in 10-15 years or so. )

Edited May 26, 2016 by BRASSO

[eric24]

How did we go from 19-25 to 19-40?

[JAZZER]

Similar in this respect to the G7 concept of a few years back that was cooked up, then scuttled. They chose " 7 ", but it just as easily could have been " 9"... or" 8 " or " 6 " or " 5" , or whatever. This too was an arbitrary number.

But any # fewer than 7 of the 12 deciding Board of Directors would not have represented a majority then........so the G7 membership essentially had upper hand.

Am I mistaken?

http://drumcorpseurope.org/Resources/pdf/other/g7.pdf

[BRASSO]

. Each year is another opportunity to study with a different corps, and learn from more top instructors. In the same way music professionals list their teachers on their resume, marching with different corps adds to the resume of a corps member.

Along these same lines, regarding careers and " resume building ", I would imagine that any potential employer -interviewer in the Music Ed field is probably not going to care all that much if you marched with BD or a 8th to a 40th placing Corps. I fail to see how ( for just one example ) marching with the 10th place Boston Crusaders and performing with Keith Lockhart, the Boston Pops, on the stage at the TV televised 4th of July telecast, at Tanglewood, marching in the world wide TV broadcast of the President's Inauguration parade, etc looks better to a potential employer than marching in a higher placing DCI MB. Plus, what career building benefit does a guard marcher get in their " resume building " for a potential job as teacher of music in the Elementary, High School, or College, by marching in DCI ?..... and over that of a similar potential applicant that spent their summers tutoring children as a volunteer in an inner city, or in a foreign land ? I submit.... none. So even this often heard comment that marching in the elite Corps ( instead of a 19th-40th placing one ) looks great on a resume, and/ or in career building in the Music Ed field is probably mostly myth for most of these DCI MM's, than a substantive one, imo. Plus, if one is NOT a Music Major, and intend ( for example ) to secure a position in ( say) Finance , I fail to see how marching BD or Pioneer would have any difference at all to the prospective employer. So for these marchers, the skills of endurance, confidence, teamwork, discipline, time management skill development, etc could just as equally be found by marching BD as with any of these 19th-40th placing Corps that we are discussing.

Edited May 26, 2016 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

Along these same lines, regarding careers and " resume building ", I would imagine that any potential employer -interviewer in the Music Ed field is probably not going to care all that much if you marched with BD or a 8th to a 40th placing Corps. I fail to see how ( for just one example ) marching with the 10th place Boston Crusaders and performing with Keith Lockhart, the Boston Pops, on the stage at the TV televised 4th of July telecast, at Tanglewood, marching in the world wide TV broadcast of the President's Inauguration parade, etc looks better to a potential employer than marching in a higher placing DCI MB. Plus, what career building benefit does a guard marcher get in their " resume building " for a potential job as teacher of music in the Elementary, High School, or College, by marching in DCI ?..... and over that of a similar potential applicant that spent their summers tutoring children as a volunteer in an inner city, or in a foreign land ? I submit.... none. So even this often heard comment that marching in the elite Corps ( instead of a 19th-40th placing one ) looks great on a resume, and/ or in career building in the Music Ed field is probably mostly myth for most of these DCI MM's, than a substantive one, imo. Plus, if one is NOT a Music Major, and intend ( for example ) to secure a position in ( say) Finance , I fail to see how marching BD or Pioneer would have any difference at all to the prospective employer. So for these marchers, the skills of endurance, confidence, teamwork, discipline, time management skill development, etc could just as equally be found by marching BD as with any of these 19th-40th placing Corps that we are discussing.

On the whole I agree with this. There are probably exceptions, just as there are in any general statement. There would be some hiring educators that might look at drum corps as a net negative, depending on the particular music department's POV on marching band in general. Don't forget, probably 70-75%'ish of the HS bands in the US don't compete at all.