BigBadMadMan Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 2 hours ago, mjoakes said: Lots of good info and opinions in this forum regarding Madison generally and the 2016/2017 seasons more particularly. Just curious what others have to say to this more direct question: What is the biggest one or two factors holding the Scouts back from more routinely higher placements, such as 1-6 or so? Talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) So I'm adding some icing to the cake....Their opener is from Bartok with some interesting Advant-Garde jazz. I like what I'm hearing so far. For those who remembers the end of their 1997 show with that glorious 45 second FFFFFFFF hold, with the drum major picking up his camera and took bunch of photos of the audience jizzing all over themselves in the stadium??? I told them it's time to bring that back!!!! Edited January 21, 2017 by Vance 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Dad Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Vance said: So I'm sitting in Indianapolis right now checking out Scout's camp this weekend. Friday night was all music, but basic stuff like cords, balancing and volume. There were using Xenos because my horns was been trucked out from Wisconsin and was delayed. Today (Saturday) they'll spend most of the day time on marching and will work on music starting at 8 pm. I had a lengthy chat with the director and we have quite a few agreements. During their january camp, they had 24 of my Bb soprano and rehearsed with them back and forth with the Xeno so they can hear the difference, and they like what they heard; this weekend I also brought my latest production model of the Bb bugle "Jr." with the Kanstul powerbore flare bell, intended for their lead players. They will spend the evening with them. I was told my mellophone have surpassed Yamaha, and my baritone and Euphonium is just good and they love the sound, the question now is whether to bugle or not bugle. The line is fairly young, I counted with 76 brass, only about 30 vets, but I explain to them that it is a good time to switch so these younger players can be trained properly. They even have some 14 year olds, something I haven't seen since my BD days. Lots of potential and plenty of kids with a eagerness to learn. Also I counted 4 or 5 new visual staffs from BD, so they are serious about cleaning the feet! So I'm adding some icing to the cake....Their opener is from Bartok with some interesting Advant-Garde jazz. I like what I'm hearing so far. For those who remembers the end of their 1997 show with that glorious 45 second FFFFFFFF hold, with the drum major picking up his camera and took bunch of photos of the audience jizzing all over themselves in the stadium??? I told them it's time to bring that back!!!! 14 year olds? I know there are young students who are very talented but that would be a lot to ask of a 14 year old. I know that was the way things were back in the '70s and early '80s but trying to compete against the top level corps with students that young is just a little scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Pit Dad said: 14 year olds? I know there are young students who are very talented but that would be a lot to ask of a 14 year old. I know that was the way things were back in the '70s and early '80s but trying to compete against the top level corps with students that young is just a little scary. 14 year olders is not that totally uncommon when you get below the top 6-7 Corps range in World Class Division however. That said, I do agee with you that , generally speaking, 18-22 year olders tend to be able to handle better the more difficult and physically demanding visuals and drill than the typical 14-16 year old H.S. students. Most athletes that are 18-22 tend to have more strength and endurance at this age than when they were in H.S. too. DCI has become much more drill demanding over the years now too, so even when a 14-16 year older might be able to play their musical instrument well standing still, its another thing entirely when we ask the typical H.S. Frosh, Sophmore to be challenged with a demanding drill. Coupled with the fact that oftentimes the top Corps with predominently the college aged are out on practice fields in late May, early June, while the 14-15 year olders are back in Frosh/ Soph biology class dissecting frogs or some such, means that all across the board the top Corps, with older, mature, marchers have a decided big edge each and every season in DCI. Edited January 21, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Dad Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, BRASSO said: 14 year olders is not that totally uncommon when you get below the top 6-7 Corps range in World Class Division however. That said, I do agee with you that , generally speaking, 18-22 year olders tend to be able to handle better the more difficult and physically demanding visuals and drill than the typical 14-16 year old H.S. students. Most athletes that are 18-22 tend to have more strength and endurance at this age than when they were in H.S. too. DCI has become much more drill demanding over the years now too, so even when a 14-16 year older might be able to play their musical instrument well standing still, its another thing entirely when we ask the typical H.S. Frosh, Sophmore to be challenged with a demanding drill. Coupled with the fact that oftentimes the top Corps with predominently the college aged are out on practice fields in late May, early June, while the 14-15 year olders are back in Frosh/ Soph biology class dissecting frogs or some such, means that all across the board the top Corps, with older, mature, marchers have a decided big edge each and every season in DCI. Agree 100%. When my son was 15 and 16, and auditioning, he was told to go to the lower tier corps to gain the experience and then come back when he was older before he would even be considered. He's now done that and is reaping the benefits of that advice. I look back now and it would have been very difficult at that age to handle the rigors of a top 12 corps. This is my concern for Madison that if they are taking kids this young (along with low vet retention), are they really going to be among the elite top 12 or will they have to bide their time for a couple years until kids like this get their feet wet! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcityscout Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Still with all that I am hearing I like the direction they are going! They didn't just lay down after not making finals last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Dad Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Madcityscout said: Still with all that I am hearing I like the direction they are going! They didn't just lay down after not making finals last year. Now they just have to get buy in from the students that they are teaching that Madison is once again a destination and not a place to learn for a few years and then go to an upper tier corps. I want Madison to be considered in that upper tier again but they have to get the buy in from the students that are there and potential candidates in the future to stay and that is really hard to do in the environment created by DCI these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Pit Dad said: 14 year olds? I know there are young students who are very talented but that would be a lot to ask of a 14 year old. I know that was the way things were back in the '70s and early '80s but trying to compete against the top level corps with students that young is just a little scary. When I marched 1991 BD, there were two 14 year olds in the group, and both of them marched all the way till 21 and they have 4 DCI rings. BD no longer allow that because they have no problem recruit from all over the world and they also have B and C corps. It's actually quite common to have younger kids in world class group, you just see less now a days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Dad Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Vance said: When I marched 1991 BD, there were two 14 year olds in the group, and both of them marched all the way till 21 and they have 4 DCI rings. BD no longer allow that because they have no problem recruit from all over the world and they also have B and C corps. It's actually quite common to have younger kids in world class group, you just see less now a days. I'm not trying to date you since I marched even before that, but that was 26 years ago. I agree that there are probably 14 year olds marching in world class corps, but I would bet the number is very small or none in the top 12 corps. Edited January 21, 2017 by Pit Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcityscout Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Vance said: So I'm sitting in Indianapolis right now checking out Scout's camp this weekend. Friday night was all music, but basic stuff like cords, balancing and volume. There were using Xenos because my horns was been trucked out from Wisconsin and was delayed. Today (Saturday) they'll spend most of the day time on marching and will work on music starting at 8 pm. I had a lengthy chat with the director and we have quite a few agreements. During their january camp, they had 24 of my Bb soprano and rehearsed with them back and forth with the Xeno so they can hear the difference, and they like what they heard; this weekend I also brought my latest production model of the Bb bugle "Jr." with the Kanstul powerbore flare bell, intended for their lead players. They will spend the evening with them. I was told my mellophone have surpassed Yamaha, and my baritone and Euphonium is just good and they love the sound, the question now is whether to bugle or not bugle. The line is fairly young, I counted with 76 brass, only about 30 vets, but I explain to them that it is a good time to switch so these younger players can be trained properly. They even have some 14 year olds, something I haven't seen since my BD days. Lots of potential and plenty of kids with a eagerness to learn. Also I counted 4 or 5 new visual staffs from BD, so they are serious about cleaning the feet! So I'm adding some icing to the cake....Their opener is from Bartok with some interesting Advant-Garde jazz. I like what I'm hearing so far. For those who remembers the end of their 1997 show with that glorious 45 second FFFFFFFF hold, with the drum major picking up his camera and took bunch of photos of the audience jizzing all over themselves in the stadium??? I told them it's time to bring that back!!!! Question. How do you feel the brass judging community in DCI would receive the Scouts' hornline if they do decide to use the Bb Bugles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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