Cadets 2017

[2000Cadet]

3 hours ago, George Dixon said:

I personally don't think secretive and stealth-mode winters are very good for the drum corps activity

As just a PR basic, it's important to keep your audience engaged year round

JMO

No. I think it's better to keep your mouth shut and lead with your actions. That's been the problem with Cadets over the past few years. They overload us with information which leads to many of us "hypemachines" to generate an excessive amount of anticipation about their show and conjecturing about their possibly being unstoppable; finishing with disappointment in the end (yes, I am certainly about the  position in which they place finals night so I am not gonna sugarcoat it at all). While I find it completely reasonable to keep your audience engaged year round, too much information leads to the aforementioned results. At least if we wait until the show actually is on the field in competition with the rest of the competing corps, we can guage where each corps might possibly end up.

[chaddyt]

4 hours ago, George Dixon said:

I personally don't think secretive and stealth-mode winters are very good for the drum corps activity

As just a PR basic, it's important to keep your audience engaged year round

JMO

Engaged to what degree?  Just so we have something to talk about on DCP?  That's really all the pre-season and camp info is good for.  People don't make a decision to go to or stay home from DCI East because of a January camp video from one corps.  (I'm not going to pass on Star Wars: The Last Jedi because they haven't released a #### trailer yet.)

Drum corps fans know the drill... we know it's a seasonal thing... we know the non-summer months are long and dreary and filled with a longing for happier times.  Any info or clips we do happen to get are great, but let's be honest.... we're not leaving the activity because we don't know in January what the Cadets' show concept is.

 

[Wadep66]

Tend to disagree a little.   There are thousands of fans who don't hang out or post here, are way less critical of the activity and give money year round.   I can vouch for how often the Cadets ask for donations.   Being transparent and accessible keeps the corps in front of donors and fans in the off-season.   While I think many weren't happy with the placement (no evidence, just gut feel), I doubt that the videos and info from the camp makes them less likely to donate in the future.  It hasn't changed mine.  

[BRASSO]

8 hours ago, tesmusic said:

I understand your point.

 

I do wonder though, in the pre-internet days-do you believe it was hard for the activity to flourish with little to no info? 

 Depending on the timeframe you are referring too in this pre- internet period, most years, the top Junior and Senior Corps were either putting on exhibitions, or competing in winter indoor standstill competitions. It was a 12 month long engagement with fans. Not a 44 week black out, and a 7-8 week season. Bears hibernate far shorter in their caves in the winter, than do DCI Corps.

 The notion that every DCI  Corps in World Class can not show videos of Corps playing their Corps song, or chord progressions, or snares playing fundamentals, etc or some such, is ridiculous, imo. Nothing is gained by becoming secretive with such playing that really reveals nothing, and keeps intact and under wraps what these Corps will be playing on the field. 

As such, a shout out to Blue Stars, Legends, Music City for providing fans such practice videos so far this off season. Cadets gave us a video of their 2017 choir practice, but nothing of brass, percussion. Most Corps are in full secrecy mode. Is this a way to grow a fanbase. My guess, DCI's consultant would tell them.... " are you kidding ? heck, no ! "

Edited January 23, 2017 by BRASSO

[DrumManTx]

16 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Depending on the timeframe you are referring too in this pre- internet period, most years, the top Junior and Senior Corps were either putting on exhibitions, or competing in winter indoor standstill competitions. It was a 12 month long engagement with fans. Not a 44 week black out, and a 7-8 week season. Bears hibernate far shorter in their caves in the winter, than do DCI Corps.

 The notion that every DCI  Corps in World Class can not show videos of Corps playing their Corps song, or chord progressions, or snares playing fundamentals, etc or some such, is ridiculous, imo. Nothing is gained by becoming secretive with such playing that really reveals nothing, and keeps intact and under wraps what these Corps will be playing on the field. 

As such, a shout out to Blue Stars, Legends, Music City for providing fans such practice videos so far this off season. Cadets gave us a video of their 2017 choir practice, but nothing of brass, percussion. Most Corps are in full secrecy mode. Is this a way to grow a fanbase. My guess, DCI's consultant would tell them.... " are you kidding ? heck, no ! "

It's nice to know they still exist.  They can still post stuff without revealing too much.

It's all a balancing act.   

[George Dixon]

7 hours ago, 2000Cadet said:

No. I think it's better to keep your mouth shut and lead with your actions. That's been the problem with Cadets over the past few years. They overload us with information which leads to many of us "hypemachines" to generate an excessive amount of anticipation about their show and conjecturing about their possibly being unstoppable; finishing with disappointment in the end (yes, I am certainly about the  position in which they place finals night so I am not gonna sugarcoat it at all). While I find it completely reasonable to keep your audience engaged year round, too much information leads to the aforementioned results. At least if we wait until the show actually is on the field in competition with the rest of the competing corps, we can guage where each corps might possibly end up.

I'm speaking from a PR mode. You seem to be speaking from a competitive mode - and personally I see 100% stealth and 100% hype as either extremely having 0% influence on competitive results. It's about a quality product. 

Now for the activity (and the organizations) year round engagement is key. 

[LabMaster]

4 hours ago, BRASSO said:

 Depending on the timeframe you are referring too in this pre- internet period, most years, the top Junior and Senior Corps were either putting on exhibitions, or competing in winter indoor standstill competitions. It was a 12 month long engagement with fans. Not a 44 week black out, and a 7-8 week season. Bears hibernate far shorter in their caves in the winter, than do DCI Corps.

 The notion that every DCI  Corps in World Class can not show videos of Corps playing their Corps song, or chord progressions, or snares playing fundamentals, etc or some such, is ridiculous, imo. Nothing is gained by becoming secretive with such playing that really reveals nothing, and keeps intact and under wraps what these Corps will be playing on the field. 

As such, a shout out to Blue Stars, Legends, Music City for providing fans such practice videos so far this off season. Cadets gave us a video of their 2017 choir practice, but nothing of brass, percussion. Most Corps are in full secrecy mode. Is this a way to grow a fanbase. My guess, DCI's consultant would tell them.... " are you kidding ? heck, no ! "

I know of one group who is keeping a lid on things this offseason with their reasoning being; putting out program teasers or their program outline provides no benefit to the org.  It enables uninformed critics to offer their "expert" criticism, shaped as opinions.  These critics then offer harsher criticism once the season is underway, should the org not meet the experts expectation or their opined placement prediction.  I'm with them with regard to a quieter off season and let me learn about their show once the season gets close and maybe get myself to a camp.

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, LabMaster said:

I know of one group who is keeping a lid on things this offseason with their reasoning being; putting out program teasers or their program outline provides no benefit to the org.  It enables uninformed critics to offer their "expert" criticism, shaped as opinions.  These critics then offer harsher criticism once the season is underway, should the org not meet the experts expectation or their opined placement prediction.  I'm with them with regard to a quieter off season and let me learn about their show once the season gets close and maybe get myself to a camp.

 Since this is a Cadets thread, we can utilize the Cadets real world, verifiable, result of their going very public in preseason with their show. No secrets that  year... and what unfolded:

 In preseason 2011, The Cadets came out early and often re. show, theme, music. They even produced for the public, and  broadcast, their entire music program that was completed in preseason, and produced a video live and for  retrieval on their website . We here on DCP got  the fans reaction to the broadcast. Well, like you might expect, the fans reaction ran the gamut.  From " excited " to " Man, they look to be struggling right now ",... to.Im not so sure I will like this show". For context, the last sentiment ( " not sure, I'll like this show") was pretty much my reaction. So there was definately some criticisms of what was heard played. What ultimately happened that 2011 season with the Cadets ? Well, they won themselves a DCI Title with the show... " Between Angels and Demons ", and received their highest score the last 16 years. Once they put the music and the percussion to the visuals, Guard, the entire show soared. I loved that show by August. By August, what people mightt have said about the show broadcast of the music alone in preseason was  utterly meaningless. Were the Cadets effected in any, manner, shape, or form by what might have been said on the anonymous social media in preseason ? No. Not in the least. What is said on social media in preseason about a video broadcast of a Corps or its show, is ridiculously insignificant. So ridiculously insignificant, imo, that to give such criticism  any weight at all, is a weakness of character, imo. Did the N.E. Patriots allow preseason criticism to effect their on field performance  this season ?Would pre season hype of the highest levels have saved the Dallas Cowboys in the end this season ? I respect the decision of Corps to keep season's music off public airing, as well as mus ic to be played, theme to be used if thats their choice. i can see SOME benefits to this policy. That said, do I agree that the release of Corps playing lots of chord progressions, or their Corps Songs, or their encore songs, or drum line playing fundamentals will be somehow harmful to that Corps ?Heck no. I see no valid excuse that playing such, and releasing it to the public, can be harmful in any way to the Corps chances this summer. There is no excuse then, imo... for not producing more camp videos in the off season that deals with non show music elements. Keep in mind, this blackout is a recent phenomenom in DCI.  BD has won titles in secret mode and in wide open mode. It never effects the people with strong enough motovation and single minded purpose that what others might say about them means much. I hope DCI is producing strong young adults  that do not particularly care what anonymous people think about them anyway. DCI does not need to become " safe havens " for young people's growing sense of self esteeem. It needs to become a place where criticism, even that which may be unjust and unfair, is laughed at, or ignored, or used as extra motivation to prove the early season armchair quarterbacks  ( like me in 2011 re. the Cadets ) were  ultimately  wrong on their initial assessments and/ or preseason criticisms of what the future result would be when the finished product was done.

Edited January 24, 2017 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

8 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Since this is a Cadets thread, we can utilize the Cadets real world, verifiable, result of their going very public in preseason with their show. No secrets that  year... and what unfolded:

 In preseason 2007, The Cadets came out early and often re. show, theme, music. They even produced for the public, and  broadcast, their entire music program that was completed in preseason, and produced a video live and for  retrieval on their website . We here on DCP got  the fans reaction to the broadcast. Well, like you might expect, the fans reaction ran the gamut.  From " excited " to " Man, they look to be struggling right now ",... to.Im not so sure I will like this show". For context, the last sentiment ( " not sure, I'll like this show") was pretty much my reaction. So there was definately some criticisms of what was heard played. What ultimately happened that 2007 season with the Cadets ? Well, they won themselves a DCI Title with the show... " Between Angels and Demons ", and received their highest score the last 16 years. Once they put the music and the percussion to the visuals, Guard, the entire show soared. I loved that show by August. By August, what people mightt have said about the show broadcast of the music alone in preseason was  utterly meaningless. Were the Cadets effected in any, manner, shape, or form by what might have been said on the anonymous social media in preseason ? No. Not in the least. What is said on social media in preseason about a video broadcast of a Corps or its show, is ridiculously insignificant. So ridiculously insignificant, imo, that to give such criticism  any weight at all, is a weakness of character, imothe N.E. Patriots allow preseason criticism to effect their on field performance  this season ?Would pre season hype of the highest levels have saved the Dallas Cowboys in the end this season ? I respect the decision of Corps to keep seasson's music off public airing, as well as mus ic to be played, theme to be used if thats their choice. i can see SOME benefits to this policy. That said, do I agree that the release of Corps playing lots of chord progressions, or their Corps Songs, or their encore songs, or drum line playing fundamentals will be somehow harmful to that Corps. Heck no. I see no valid excuse that playing such, and releasing it to the public, can be harmful in any way to the Corps chances this summer. There is no excuse then, imo... for not producing more camp videos in the off season that deals with non show music elements. Keep in mind, this blackout is a recent phenomenom in DCI.  BD has won titles in secret mode and in wide open mode. It never effects the people with strong enough motovation and single minded purpose that what others might say about them does not mean spit. I hope DCI is producing strong young adults  that do not particularly care what anonymous people think about them anyway. DCI does not need to become " safe havens " for young people's growing sense of self esteeem. It needs to become a place where criticism, even that which may be unjust and unfair, is laughed at, or ignored, or used as extra motivation to prove the early season armchair quarterbacks  ( like me in 2007 re. the Cadets ) completely and utterly wrong on their assessment.

You mean 2011 for this show, this I believe.       

 

 

 

[chaddyt]

5 hours ago, Wadep66 said:

Tend to disagree a little.   There are thousands of fans who don't hang out or post here, are way less critical of the activity and give money year round.   I can vouch for how often the Cadets ask for donations.   Being transparent and accessible keeps the corps in front of donors and fans in the off-season.   While I think many weren't happy with the placement (no evidence, just gut feel), I doubt that the videos and info from the camp makes them less likely to donate in the future.  It hasn't changed mine.  

While I agree that it certainly can't hurt to be in front of your audience more, I don't think it harms them in any way either.  By that logic, Bluecoats, Devils and Crown would probably hard up for cash annually as they wait until the absolute last minute almost every year before even announcing their source music.

I too am on the Cadets' mailing lists and received an election-cycle's worth of donation-seeking material for that food truck last year.  I've gotten a few things since the season's ended.  My decision to donate or not has never had any bearing on whether I know what their show is or if I've seen a camp video.