BRASSO Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, xandandl said: No, just Angels and Demons for the win. On a scale of 1 to 10, I 'd give your reply The Power of 10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 59 minutes ago, BRASSO said: On a scale of 1 to 10, I 'd give your reply The Power of 10. Now, about the Ten Commandments BRASSO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, Ghost said: Now, about the Ten Commandments BRASSO. Thats exactly the words the Priests ask me all the time in my confessionals. I usually don't have a satisfactory answer either, Ghost. I just tell them that'll I'll try harder the next time. I'm a work in progress, and no doubt one of the Lord's biggest challengers, I think he has a sense of humor. If so, that probably helps him get thru his day with me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 11 hours ago, George Dixon said: what's awesome is the number of members who left you can count on one set of hands, if that Can't imagine many kids following Colin when Tom Aungst was returning and as far as brass, ten vets I know went to BD, Crown or aren't marching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, BRASSO said: Oh.... NOW I think I see where you are attempting to go with this. The Cadets have won 10 DCI Titles under GH's watch , despite your alleged " Anti- Cadets " bias you are seeing within the DCI judging community toward the Cadets. I've been following DCI since its inception in 1972, but had never heard before that there was a DCI judging community " anti- Cadets " conspiracy that has hurt the placements of the Cadets over the years. Judges do have their likes and dislikes, so that does come to the fore. But judges are not out to underscore the Cadets because they might not like " the personality " of any Corps Director.. in this case, the Corps Director of the Cadets. That sounds preposterous, and downright silly. But I do think I might have van inkling on why this sudden, unheard of before, DCI judging community alleged " anti- Cadets" conspiracy bias to underscore the Cadets might be surfacing now, The Cadets had their worst placement season in decades last season. If there should be further placement slide this season, it could help if there was a before the season narrative created of an " anti- Cadets " DCI judging community conspiracy at work for their scores. This way, the diminishment of placement can be explained as something that is beyond the control of the Cadets.. out of their hands... and really the fault of DCI for not providing the Cadets with fair and honest judges. Guess what ?.. that narrative might work in some quarters of CadetsLand, but that narrative won't work with most national fans, imo. Not when there is this silly unprecedented claim surfacing now of judge bias within the DCI Judging community... a DCI judging community that has been more than fair toward the Cadets over the last 4 decades in their 10 DCI winning Titles in which the DCI judging community has awarded the Cadets deserving DCI Titles..... ALL 10 of these Titles while under George Hopkins watch as the Cadets Corps Director too, it should be pointed out. I'm referring to current judges. Many of the championship year judges 80s and 90s are long gone and those were tick years. Judges were slightly more objective. My point was in the current subjective era of judging personal biases come more into play abit more when assigning a number. Edited February 25, 2017 by Tobias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 56 minutes ago, Tobias said: I'm referring to current judges. Many of the championship year judges 80s and 90s are long gone and those were tick years. Judges were slightly more objective. My point was in the current subjective era of judging personal biases come more into play abit more when assigning a number. ticks ended before Cadets were winning I do agree there is some bias - but it can also be described as "opinion" or "on design trend" - in recent years Cadets haven't been hitting the right mark in terms of designer turned judge taste. BD nails it. Coats have the past couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) I'm not going to get into the argument of judges dissing this corps or that other than this objective fact. Look who is in charge of judges training programs for DCI, WGI, and BOA. Head of WGI judges training is S. Dorritie who was CG caption head at BD for many years and probably does a consult there or two. Visual and guard judges formed in that culture of judges education do not have Jekyll and Hyde personalities looking at one circuit one way and DCI another. In fact, DCI guard caption adopted the WGI philosophies several Rules Congresses back and have only slightly amended them since. Look at the other captions and circuits to see the strongly California presence. Cadets (Crown, Boston, and Cavies) have almost no one present in judges' formation. Only a few Cadet alums are currently even judging DCI or WGI. I imagine it is the same for Crown and Crusaders too. Yet the whole faculty of Logan High School seems either to be judging or are BD staff.* Coincidence? *yes, there are one or two judges with Avon or Carmel affiliations in Indiana, second home of CC. P,S. I am not accusing Mrs. Dorritie of collusion. She and her husband Frank, a former Cadet and a Cadet horn instructor pre-Hopkins era, are great folks. I renewed my friendship with them at last championships. But if one is used to seeing everything one way, one expects always to see it that way. Judges training in all three circuits needs a wider national base with greater representations of regions and units, not just California clones. Edited February 26, 2017 by xandandl 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, George Dixon said: ticks ended before Cadets were winning I do agree there is some bias - but it can also be described as "opinion" or "on design trend" - in recent years Cadets haven't been hitting the right mark in terms of designer turned judge taste. BD nails it. Coats have the past couple years. I do agree that the score assignments by the judges are getting far more subjective than ever before. Primarily as the result of far more disparate utilizations of entirely different mix of instrumentations than ever before in Drum Corps competitions. As a result the sound is uniquely different between performing units. Its humanely possible to compare and contrast which is " better " when comparing relatively similar instrumentations among competing units. I submit that its humanely impossible however... despite ones education, experience, training,... to compare and contrast which music sounds are " better " among the competing units if the instrumentations utilized by them all are so completely dissimilar. As such, judges are naturally left then with what music sounds they " like " and ' prefer " better. The sounds of Corps using french horns compared to choirs, compared to trombones, compared to synthetic man made sounds, and so forth, where all the Corps sounds are so totally unlike one another in almost every respect now makes the score assignment on which is " better " now an altogether personal preference endeavor now with the judges..... and a far more subjective enterprise for these judges to score now than ever before in Drum Corps competition judging history, imo. Edited February 25, 2017 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, xandandl said: I'm not going to get into the argument of judges dissing this corps or that other than this objective fact. Look who is in charge of judges training programs for DCI, WGI, and BOA. Head of WGI judges training is S. Dorrittee who was CG caption head at BD for many years and probably does a consult there or two. Visual and guard judges formed in that culture of judges education do not have Jekyll and Hyde personalities looking at one circuit one way and DCI another. In fact, DCI guard caption adopted the WGI philosophies several Rules Congresses back and have only slightly amended them since. Look at the other captions and circuits to see the strongly California presence. Cadets (Crown, Boston, and Cavies) have almost no one present in judges' formation. Only a few Cadet alums are currently even judging DCI or WGI. I imagine it is the same for Crown and Crusaders too. Yet the whole faculty of Logan High School seems either to be judging or are BD staff.* Coincidence? *yes, there are one or two with Avon or Carmel affiliations in Indiana, second home of CC. P,S. I am not accusing Mrs. Dorrittee of collusion. She and her husband Frank, a former Cadet and a Cadet horn instructor pre-Hopkins era, are great folks. I renewed my friendship with them at last championships. But if one is used to seeing everything one way, one expects always to see it that way. Judges training in all three circuits needs a wider national base with greater representations of regions and units, not just California clones. Thank you. When you have the majority of the judges in your corner through the above networking and allegiances, it's s nice comfort. I would put Cadets at the opposite side of BDs cozy relationship with judges. Yes, after many years of winning, you now have great talent matching there and the cycle repeats but let's not ignore judging is not an unbiased "level playing field" process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Which recent years with these present day judges did Cadets get lower placement than they should have? And over which corps should they have placed higher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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