Cadets 2017

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, wallace said:

if alumni are happy with the corps being consistently in the lower tiers of the top twelve to keep the uniform then I can accept it; however, we are deluded to think it can currently compete with the push from other staffs. 

 There are things however that we can say with certainty, and other things are open to just speculation and guesswork.

 For example, the Cadets were in 1st-2nd place rankings 2 seasons ago when they decided midseason to ditch their traditional colors and go to the all black. When they did so, their placements immediately plummeted. That part is undeniable. So too is that they followed this up last season with a further placement plummet..  their worst placement in decades. Again, undeniable. What is speculative however, is whether or not the ditching of the 80+ years of uniform was directly connected or not to that placement plunge. A case can be made that the two are connected, just as easily that the uniform one wears has no bearing on that placement plunge. On the other hand, if one is predisposed to believe that the uniform had no bearing on the Cadets placement plunge, then they are logically bound to believe that the uniforms that might be considered " progressive " likewise have little to nothing at all to do with a Corps rise or fall in placements. Can't have it both ways. No can do, imo.

Edited March 19, 2017 by BRASSO

[wallace]

It wasn't the uniform per se that tanked 2015. It was the slow reaction to adjust the entire color palette and the feet once the visual dirt reared its ugly head. The supporting colors changed from a vibrant autumnal package to basically neon green. Honestly, it was a huge strategic error to make the wholesale palette change so late in the season. Also, we could speculate the opposite of your point. Had the change not occurred did the show have enough gas to medal?

[BRASSO]

11 minutes ago, wallace said:

. Also, we could speculate the opposite of your point. Had the change not occurred did the show have enough gas to medal?

 Yes, we can speculate on whether or not they would have retained their medalist position they had when they switched uniforms. What we do not have to speculate on however is whether or not the uniform change resulted in retention , or improvement in the Cadets placements. That is a settled matter. The uniform change did neither for the Cadets.

Edited March 19, 2017 by BRASSO

[wallace]

Just now, BRASSO said:

 Yes, we can speculate on whether or not they would have retained their medalist position they had when they switched uniforms. What we do not have to speculate on however is whether or not the uniform change resulted in retention , or improvement in their placements. That is a settled matter. It did neither for the Cadets.

The only settled matter is BD and Crown, who embraced theme in their uniforms, fared better especially in the Visual and GE captions which recent history proves the Cadets are not as proficient.

[wallace]

Also, as I've joked in the past, the judges never embraced the TEN idea. I still contend all of them were lit majors who hated mathematics.

[BRASSO]

21 minutes ago, wallace said:

The only settled matter is BD and Crown, who embraced theme in their uniforms, fared better especially in the Visual and GE captions which recent history proves the Cadets are not as proficient.

 There is no evidence to support the notion that what a Corps wears on the field has anything at all to do with either scores or placements. As a matter of fact there is a mountain of evidence to support the notion that what one wears on the field is a complete non factor in a Corps scores and placements.

 Madison Scouts, Troopers, Jersey Surf all went " mod " in uniform changes, and it did zip for them. Oregon Crusaders went out with perhaps the biggest, most progressive uniform change for themselves last season in their history, and it did absolutely nothing for them in placements. Some Corps change uniforms almost every season, and nary a change in the placements. The Cadets for decades topped Corps that changed uniforms as often as Hollywood Celebs change marriage partners,& lovers. The Cadets, Cadet styled uniform was never an impediment to their scores and placements for 80 years of competition. What makes anyone think that if they kept this iconic, classically beautiful, uniform that they could no longer " compete " well in it ? There is no evidence whatsoever that the retention of the Cadets now thoroughly unique uniform in DCI would have future hurt them in DCI competition. None, imo.

Edited March 19, 2017 by BRASSO

[wallace]

Listen, I understand your point, but look who is winning compared to the Cadets' stagnancy. I'm with you. I prefer the corps proper uniform; however, you still haven't presented a solution to fix its problems with choreography. Honestly, it looks horrible. If you can give a credible idea I'll be the first one to jump off the bandwagon. However, in 2015 and 2016, neither BC or BD topped 98 which I consider weak years competitely, and we weren't close in the captions that win championships.

[corpsband]

2 minutes ago, wallace said:

Listen, I understand your point, but look who is winning compared to the Cadets' stagnancy. I'm with you. I prefer the corps proper uniform; however, you still haven't presented a solution to fix its problems with choreography. Honestly, it looks horrible. If you can give a credible idea I'll be the first one to jump off the bandwagon. However, in 2015 and 2016, neither BC or BD topped 98 which I consider weak years competitely, and we weren't close in the captions that win championships.

You're right on the money.  Just because "it never affected them in the past" has no bearing on whether it affects them now -- in today's DCI.  The Cadets have resisted the move from "body" to "dance" that the rest of the activity has embraced.  The military design of their uniform makes that sort of choreography look a bit odd.  There's no logic in "it never hurt them before".  This is NOT before :-)   

[George Dixon]

1 hour ago, corpsband said:

You're right on the money.  Just because "it never affected them in the past" has no bearing on whether it affects them now -- in today's DCI.  The Cadets have resisted the move from "body" to "dance" that the rest of the activity has embraced.  The military design of their uniform makes that sort of choreography look a bit odd.  There's no logic in "it never hurt them before".  This is NOT before :-)   

completely agree - the visual "theme" has to line up perfectly. Crown 2016 was a great example of this with the western approach - color scheme, costuming, choreography, silks, etc just perfectly aligned

there's potentially future shows Cadets could make use of the traditional look (let's say a patriotic show) but most years most corps should use a modified uniform or a specific costume with the modern show design approach

I still remember who the "knights" in the guard in 1993 Cadets (spinning rifles and women dress as "knights") drove me wacko even back then. Now the corps proper needs to line up as well. In 1993 the corps really didn't bother me even though they were wearing West Point uniforms for a "knights/kings" show. Now our taste and expectations have just evolved

And as you correctly point out - dance vs. movement. Not the same.

[George Dixon]

18 hours ago, corpsband said:

Does not appear that that is going to happen.  In fact I suspect the cream/maroon/gold color choice really won't help make the corps look like the Cadets at all. Probably will only see that style on C² (and who know how long that might last?) 

agree. My understanding is a modern cream body/suit type uniform with some design and overlays that happen to add maroon and gold. I do think they will work the >>> logo into it graphically. Haven't heard anything about the headgear yet - but I do believe they will have it (JMO) -- the >>> logo would look cool in place of an eagle on the front of a modern looking headgear 

Edited March 19, 2017 by George Dixon
typo