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Just now, Tobias said:

Not really. Personally it's not a good look and the ensemble looks less unified. BC last season  probably did it to emphasize the individual vs total ensemble not to mention the various head angles climbing up and going down slides would have looked messy BUT it's now an option for corps.

I agree.

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2 hours ago, Tobias said:

change is coming after blue coats headgear innovation last season. 

 I don't see too many Corps going hatless anytime soon however. Maybe a couple of more Corps, or maybe even a few Corps... but not the vast majority of Corps. Besides, some of these costume consultants to DCI have ties to  the Uniform Co. Mfg's, and these Co's don't make as much money when headgear isn't purchased. So I've always maintained that its just good policy to " follow the money "when we are trying to ascertain what decisions may or may not be made in the future with any endeavors.. including DCI and Drum Corps.

Edited by BRASSO
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1 hour ago, Tobias said:

Not really. Personally it's not a good look and the ensemble looks less unified. BC last season  probably did it to emphasize the individual vs total ensemble not to mention the various head angles climbing up and going down slides would have looked messy BUT it's now an option for corps.

A few DCA corps have been in the "no headgear" camp over the years... Empire Statesmen, Govenaires, and S.F. Renegades (when the Statesmen and Renegades were still around, obviously). 

I think it depends on the corps and its show style as to whether the "no headgear" thing works, or whether it's best for a corps to keep some sort of head covering.  IMO, it worked fine for all three of those DCA corps.

Horses for courses. LOL.

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2 hours ago, aLittleBird said:

.

 

You somehow managed to pick what is, in my opinion, one of the best examples of a uniform fitting a show we've seen for the last 5 years.

 Care to elaborate on why ? We are seen you use the term " Arts " to describe the activity above. The " Arts " include movies and theatre . I doubt we'd see a movie or a theatre production of an 1880 time period, with a western, prairie motif, and storyline, and stage coaches as a central prop... and see the movie/ theatre Director put the performers in " mod, progressive " costuming and Crown's headgear from last season. Unless the spaghetti western was a comedy ala " Blazing Saddles " and some such, and the Producers. Directors were intending to get audience laughs with an 1880 time frame western, with costuming more befitting a 21st century  Cirque du Soleil in Vegas or Paree, than that found on any US western praraie circa 1880 in Wyoming. Montana, etc,. On the other hand, I am amenable to persuasion if you'd care to tell us why a Crown " mod, progressive " costuming .. and the mod headgear ....from 2016 was stylistically most appropriate for a costume for a time setting of a show whose theme and setting revolved around the 1880's western prairie USA,.. with stagecoach, cowboys, saloon girls, and all.

Edited by BRASSO
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6 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Care to elaborate on why ? We are seen you use the term " Arts " to describe the activity above. The " Arts " include movies and theatre . I doubt we'd see a movie or a theatre production of an 1880 time period, with a western, prairie motif, and storyland, and stage coaches as a central prop... and see the movie/ theatre Director put the performers in " mod, progressive " costuming and Crown's headgear from last season. Unless the spaghetti western was a comedy ala " Blazing Saddles " and some such, and the Producers. Directors were intending to get audience laughs with an 1880 time frame western, with costuming more befitting a 21st century  Cirque du Soleil in Vegas or Paree, than on the US western praraie circa 1880 in Wyoming. On the other hand, I am amenable to persuasion if you'd care to tell us why a Crown " mod, progressive " costuming .. and the mod headgear "....from 2016 was stylistically most appropriate for a time setting of 1880 western prairie USA ?

The uniforms were not meant to be reflective of cowboy attire, and I'm surprised that you're arguing from the angle that they were. 

 

I'll do my best to help you understand-- the design team for Crown over the last 3 years has clearly been using a template uniform whose color changes to match the mood or theme of the show. Some easy examples: red for hell, bright blue for sci-fi, and a dusty brown for the West. The color complimented the props, flags, and atmosphere of the story they were trying to tell. You seem to be arguing from the angle that the uniform was somehow a bad cowboy costume, which I can either interpret as you deliberately misrepresenting the corps to try to weasel your point in, or as you not having visited the eye doctor for the last several years (being that I assume you're a dinosaur, it's a 50/50 shot at which is the case).

 

So, now we get into the meat of the conversation. Were Crown's uniforms "ineffective" when it came to portraying a wild west themed show? For that, we would have to compare their uniforms to others, and decide which would make more sense in that context. I'll make a simple chart for you so we can decide together.


Which of the following is more effective in a "Wild West" themed show?
Crown 2016 uniforms vs Crown 2015 uniforms

                               vs Crown all-cream uniforms (circa 2012)

                               vs Cadets M&G West Point uniforms

                               vs The Academy's uniforms

                              vs The Troopers' uniforms

 

 

Hopefully you can follow my thought process in the selection of these uniforms for us to look at together. I first compare this year's uniform to last year's. They're both the same style with different colors. Did changing the color make the uniform more effective in this show? I argue that yes, it did. The dusty brown is much more reminiscent to an arid, western setting than blood red. I then compare this year's uniform to the "traditional look." Does the dust-colored costume work better in the context of the show than a monotone-cream band outfit? Personally, I think so, but if you feel like that's more western feel free to interject.

 

Now we break into some more obvious ones. Obviously Cadets and Academy have very different uniforms, and I postulate that neither even have the capacity to do a Western show based on what they wear right now. You will insist that this is because I'm lacking in imagination, but we'll get to that in a bit.

 

I threw in the Troopers because it seems like your argument is that "if the uniform REALLY fit the show, Crown would be dressed like cowboys, and that the only way for the uniform to fit the show is for these people to literally be dressed broadway style like cowboys." I think that's a silly argument, and I know you think so too, so why waste time and energy making it so that I have to refute it? I don't want to bother, but it's annoying that, in a conversation, you're constantly interjecting and putting things in other people's mouths that nobody is saying. You spent about 5 pages so far acting like people are saying things that they haven't. The whole crux of your argument is that "Crown did not dress like Cowboys and therefore their uniforms did not reflect their show theme." I think it's obvious that Crown tries to use color and minimal interjection to try to draw you into the story, and I think that's really cool. It's an effective strategy, and one that nobody has been complaining about for the last 3 years up till now.

 

You further postulate that any uniform can be used for any show, with some imagination. I agree, but the effectiveness of that show is questionable. If I'm trying to make a show about the wild west, why would I use vibrant colors when I'm going for a more gritty angle? I wouldn't. It makes no sense. Every performing art that uses any visual elements whatsoever changes their costuming depending on their show. Dance, theater, all of them. There are only very rare exceptions (a la rockettes), and guess what? They put on pretty much the exact same show every single year because their military uniforms confine them to military movement. Yes, the rockettes could do a wild wild west show, but it wouldn't make much sense when they all look like a bunch of toy soldiers.

 

I hope that this explanation of uniform colors, styles and their impact on show design has been helpful to you.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, aLittleBird said:

 

Obviously Cadets and Academy have very different uniforms, and I postulate that neither even have the capacity to do a Western show based on what they wear right now. You will insist that this is because I'm lacking in imagination, but we'll get to that in a bit.

 

 

Lol please look up Cadets 1996. 

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1 hour ago, aLittleBird said:

The uniforms were not meant to be reflective of cowboy attire, and I'm surprised that you're arguing from the angle that they were. 

 

I'll do my best to help you understand-- the design team for Crown over the last 3 years has clearly been using a template uniform whose color changes to match the mood or theme of the show. Some easy examples: red for hell, bright blue for sci-fi, and a dusty brown for the West. The color complimented the props, flags, and atmosphere of the story they were trying to tell. You seem to be arguing from the angle that the uniform was somehow a bad cowboy costume, which I can either interpret as you deliberately misrepresenting the corps to try to weasel your point in, or as you not having visited the eye doctor for the last several years (being that I assume you're a dinosaur, it's a 50/50 shot at which is the case).

 

So, now we get into the meat of the conversation. Were Crown's uniforms "ineffective" when it came to portraying a wild west themed show? For that, we would have to compare their uniforms to others, and decide which would make more sense in that context. I'll make a simple chart for you so we can decide together.


Which of the following is more effective in a "Wild West" themed show?
Crown 2016 uniforms vs Crown 2015 uniforms

                               vs Crown all-cream uniforms (circa 2012)

                               vs Cadets M&G West Point uniforms

                               vs The Academy's uniforms

                              vs The Troopers' uniforms

 

 

Hopefully you can follow my thought process in the selection of these uniforms for us to look at together. I first compare this year's uniform to last year's. They're both the same style with different colors. Did changing the color make the uniform more effective in this show? I argue that yes, it did. The dusty brown is much more reminiscent to an arid, western setting than blood red. I then compare this year's uniform to the "traditional look." Does the dust-colored costume work better in the context of the show than a monotone-cream band outfit? Personally, I think so, but if you feel like that's more western feel free to interject.

 

Now we break into some more obvious ones. Obviously Cadets and Academy have very different uniforms, and I postulate that neither even have the capacity to do a Western show based on what they wear right now. You will insist that this is because I'm lacking in imagination, but we'll get to that in a bit.

 

I threw in the Troopers because it seems like your argument is that "if the uniform REALLY fit the show, Crown would be dressed like cowboys, and that the only way for the uniform to fit the show is for these people to literally be dressed broadway style like cowboys." I think that's a silly argument, and I know you think so too, so why waste time and energy making it so that I have to refute it? I don't want to bother, but it's annoying that, in a conversation, you're constantly interjecting and putting things in other people's mouths that nobody is saying. You spent about 5 pages so far acting like people are saying things that they haven't. The whole crux of your argument is that "Crown did not dress like Cowboys and therefore their uniforms did not reflect their show theme." I think it's obvious that Crown tries to use color and minimal interjection to try to draw you into the story, and I think that's really cool. It's an effective strategy, and one that nobody has been complaining about for the last 3 years up till now.

 

You further postulate that any uniform can be used for any show, with some imagination. I agree, but the effectiveness of that show is questionable. If I'm trying to make a show about the wild west, why would I use vibrant colors when I'm going for a more gritty angle? I wouldn't. It makes no sense. Every performing art that uses any visual elements whatsoever changes their costuming depending on their show. Dance, theater, all of them. There are only very rare exceptions (a la rockettes), and guess what? They put on pretty much the exact same show every single year because their military uniforms confine them to military movement. Yes, the rockettes could do a wild wild west show, but it wouldn't make much sense when they all look like a bunch of toy soldiers.

 

I hope that this explanation of uniform colors, styles and their impact on show design has been helpful to you.

 

 

 

God bless you.  But beware -- logic will fail you (as he only answers the little voices in his head).

I would have said "HE'S STILL ARGUING POINT A-4 (for 10 pages - no less).  

Of course no one here has ever said anything about modern uniforms literally representing a show theme.  In fact most often (as in Crown's case for the last 10 years) they  coordinate with or support the color palette of the show. :doh:  

Edited by corpsband
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On 3/18/2017 at 11:00 AM, Brass34 said:

I'm actually a 23 yr old college grad haha. I do respect the past and I understand how the activity is funded. I just think it is irresponsible for those certain people to expect the youth to satisfy their nostalgic desires. If someone wants to take a trip down memory lane, go buy the Legacy DVD collection

 

The Legacy DVD collection is now in short supply.

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