George Dixon Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 2 hours ago, 2000Cadet said: Lol please look up Cadets 1996. 20 years ago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, George Dixon said: 20 years ago So? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, 2000Cadet said: So? what worked then doesn't necessarily work now the "cow" panel with "beef!" wouldn't work now either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just now, George Dixon said: what worked then doesn't necessarily work now the "cow" panel with "beef!" wouldn't work now either Unless I'm mistaken, he wasn't making that point. And how does anyone know whether or not that would have worked? We don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, aLittleBird said: The uniforms were not meant to be reflective of cowboy attire, and I'm surprised that you're arguing from the angle that they were. I'll do my best to help you understand-- the design team for Crown over the last 3 years has clearly been using a template uniform whose color changes to match the mood or theme of the show. Some easy examples: red for hell, bright blue for sci-fi, and a dusty brown for the West. The color complimented the props, flags, and atmosphere of the story they were trying to tell. You seem to be arguing from the angle that the uniform was somehow a bad cowboy costume, which I can either interpret as you deliberately misrepresenting the corps to try to weasel your point in, or as you not having visited the eye doctor for the last several years (being that I assume you're a dinosaur, it's a 50/50 shot at which is the case). So, now we get into the meat of the conversation. Were Crown's uniforms "ineffective" when it came to portraying a wild west themed show? For that, we would have to compare their uniforms to others, and decide which would make more sense in that context. I'll make a simple chart for you so we can decide together. Which of the following is more effective in a "Wild West" themed show? Crown 2016 uniforms vs Crown 2015 uniforms vs Crown all-cream uniforms (circa 2012) vs Cadets M&G West Point uniforms vs The Academy's uniforms vs The Troopers' uniforms Hopefully you can follow my thought process in the selection of these uniforms for us to look at together. I first compare this year's uniform to last year's. They're both the same style with different colors. Did changing the color make the uniform more effective in this show? I argue that yes, it did. The dusty brown is much more reminiscent to an arid, western setting than blood red. I then compare this year's uniform to the "traditional look." Does the dust-colored costume work better in the context of the show than a monotone-cream band outfit? Personally, I think so, but if you feel like that's more western feel free to interject. Now we break into some more obvious ones. Obviously Cadets and Academy have very different uniforms, and I postulate that neither even have the capacity to do a Western show based on what they wear right now. You will insist that this is because I'm lacking in imagination, but we'll get to that in a bit. I threw in the Troopers because it seems like your argument is that "if the uniform REALLY fit the show, Crown would be dressed like cowboys, and that the only way for the uniform to fit the show is for these people to literally be dressed broadway style like cowboys." I think that's a silly argument, and I know you think so too, so why waste time and energy making it so that I have to refute it? I don't want to bother, but it's annoying that, in a conversation, you're constantly interjecting and putting things in other people's mouths that nobody is saying. You spent about 5 pages so far acting like people are saying things that they haven't. The whole crux of your argument is that "Crown did not dress like Cowboys and therefore their uniforms did not reflect their show theme." I think it's obvious that Crown tries to use color and minimal interjection to try to draw you into the story, and I think that's really cool. It's an effective strategy, and one that nobody has been complaining about for the last 3 years up till now. You further postulate that any uniform can be used for any show, with some imagination. I agree, but the effectiveness of that show is questionable. If I'm trying to make a show about the wild west, why would I use vibrant colors when I'm going for a more gritty angle? I wouldn't. It makes no sense. Every performing art that uses any visual elements whatsoever changes their costuming depending on their show. Dance, theater, all of them. There are only very rare exceptions (a la rockettes), and guess what? They put on pretty much the exact same show every single year because their military uniforms confine them to military movement. Yes, the rockettes could do a wild wild west show, but it wouldn't make much sense when they all look like a bunch of toy soldiers. I hope that this explanation of uniform colors, styles and their impact on show design has been helpful to you. I don't respond to posts that are personally insulting such as my need for an " eye doctor".... and perceived need you think that I need to " weasel my point" I made... and yada, yada, yada and further insults... I just immediately close my undoctored eyes to that, read no further, and quickly move on to other posts and posters comments that might interest me. Edited March 22, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, 2000Cadet said: Unless I'm mistaken, he wasn't making that point. And how does anyone know whether or not that would have worked? We don't. The notion that Carolina Crown's 2016 " mod, progressive "uniform and headgear worked better theme wise than if ( for example ) CC wore a " traditional " cadet styled uniform and head gear is an entirely unpersuasive, uncompelling argument in my opinion. BOTH styles of attire are " not in sync " with an 1880 western prairie theme with cowboys, saloon girls, stage coach, et al. What is different between the two ( imo ) however is that one style of attire ( the mod, progressive attire ) we are being told is " in sync" with the theme while the other ( cadet style, and headgear ) is not " in sync" with the theme, and as such needs to be deep sixed. Sorry, but NEITHER attire and head gear ( imo ) is really " in sync " at all with the 1880's USA western prairie time frame and the theme of the show, in my opinion. You are correct also, that there is no evidence that the Cadets have been hurt in scores and placements wearing the traditional uniform... just the opposite, imo. It was one of their unique identifying characteristics, as no other Corps had such an iconic, classically beautiful uniform with its colors ( chosen for a reason ) for anywhere near as long as the Cadets. We will find out soon enough if the Cadets move to the " mod, progressive " attire for this season will stem the placement and score slide that the Cadets have suffered since abandoning their Corps colors.. and now perhaps even abandoning their 81 year Cadets worn cadet style of uniform. Corps are NOT defined by attire, of course. But why did the Cadets throw overboard their cadet styled uniform ? There is no evidence that the judges thought the cadet styled uniform was an impediment to their chances of placing well. So it really is a mystery to me ( and others ) as to why GH decided to abandon their iconic uniform after 81 years. Edited March 22, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aLittleBird Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 24 minutes ago, BRASSO said: I don't respond to posts that are personally insulting such as my need for an " eye doctor".... and perceived need you think that I need to " weasel my point" I made... and yada, yada, yada and further insults... I just immediately close my undoctored eyes to that, read no further, and quickly move on to other posts and posters comments that might interest me. Being obstinate for ten pages will only get you so far (they don't even LOOK like cowboys!!!!) before somebody finally becomes annoyed. 30 minutes ago, 2000Cadet said: (quoted the wrong post but you know what I'm responding to so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Fair enough. I wasn't familiar with this show, but even having seen it, I don't think my opinion changes. I believe, objectively, Crown's show was made much more immersive through the changing of their uniform's color in a way this show wasn't. Both are products of their times of course, but if I had to vote between the two it'd easily be the Crown show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, aLittleBird said: Being obstinate for ten pages will only get you so far (they don't even LOOK like cowboys!!!!) before somebody finally becomes annoyed. Fair enough. I wasn't familiar with this show, but even having seen it, I don't think my opinion changes. I believe, objectively, Crown's show was made much more immersive through the changing of their uniform's color in a way this show wasn't. Both are products of their times of course, but if I had to vote between the two it'd easily be the Crown show. Both shows were great and I liked Cadets show for the most part (although I wasn't too big a fan of the ballad). Crown's show was fantastic (especially the opener). However, the show as a whole wasn't my favorite from them. But I wanted them to come out on top last year. On a completely irrelevant note, please listen to this (if you can). https://www.facebook.com/EricWhitacreOfficial/videos/10155164371087229/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) The narrative that the Cadets need to go " mod and progressive ", or else be held back, would logically then have us believe that had the Cadets not worn a cadet syled uniform last season, but instead wore a " mod, progressive style of uniform... like for example, Carolina Crown's uniform, that somehow the " mod, progressive " uniform would have " fit " their show theme better, and lo and behold, the judges would have placed them higher than 6th last season. But such " logic " falls away, as a Corps attire ( non guard ) doesn't mean a thing to the judges. I submit that if the Cadets wore CC's uniforms last season, the Cadets would still have finished 6th. Heck, THE most " mod, progressive " uniform introduced into DCI last season by any Corps ( imo ) was that from the Oregon Crusaders. Did their placements improve with such change to a " mod, progressive " style of uniform ? No. it didn't. They placed lower in 2016, than in 2015 despite the change in 2016 to the most " progressive " uniform out there on the field in DCI, imo. Edited March 22, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aLittleBird Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, BRASSO said: The narrative that the Cadets need to go " mod and progressive ", or else be held back, would logically then have us believe that had the Cadets not worn a cadet syled uniform last season, but instead wore a " mod, progressive style of uniform... like for example, Carolina Crown's uniform, that somehow the " mod, progressive " uniform would have " fit " their show theme better, and lo and behold, the judges would have placed them higher than 6th last season. But such " logic " falls away, as a Corps attire ( non guard ) doesn't mean a thing to the judges. Heck, THE most " mod, progressive " uniform introduced into DCI last season by any Corps ( imo ) was that from the Oregon Crusaders. Did their placements improve with such change to a " mod, progressive " style of uniform ? Nobody is saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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