MikeD Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 55 minutes ago, FTNK said: You're not quite following my point, and only focusing on the Bernstein part, but the larger discussion is that poor design means it's harder to attract top talent. I think we've seen that plenty already with the guard (who wants to be Little Jeffrey or a white rabbit?) and we're seeing it with the youth of the hornline. I have an acquaintance who marched in an Open Class corps in 2012. Drum corps came up and I said I marched Cadets; he replied "they haven't had a decent show since 2005." That's a big problem. Unless that person was just plain wrong. He said that the year after they won DCI in 2011 with a VERY well-designed show???? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, MikeD said: Unless that person was just plain wrong. He said that the year after they won DCI in 2011 with a VERY well-designed show???? That was such a good year... all the way through the ranks. I mentioned that a little bit ago on the Cessario thread. I wonder, however, if that show would contend on design today. I honestly don't know the answer... I would like to think that it could/would... but that show WAS kind of a blip in top placement (if that is our measure of success). There were a lot of 3-5 placements around that year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, FTNK said: Sure, but it's not what scores these days. The trend for success is taking a million musical ideas from different genres and blending them into something fresh, or at least something which allows them to run onto a prop and make a pose while playing an impact moment I wonder if the restrictions on arrangement set by the Bernstein estate will really hurt them because they can't do this. Look at Bluecoats--they're playing music by a current indie band, who came and performed for them. They're innovating and setting a whole new standard in use of electronics. That's exciting for Teh Millenials. I don't know if I agree with that. I think a corps could play anything and win with a great design. Hell, don't shoot me, but if the Cadets played their entire '87 show with a modern visual design, I would be loving it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: ahhh... I still maintain that the biggest Cadet critics aren't haters, but tend to be the biggest fans and alumni. Some people are just frustrated and eager to see (what they believe to be) a "turn around" of sorts. They want to see the excitement that they remember around the only corps that challenges the Blue Devils for the most wins, and the most exciting/innovative programs. I think there is some unfortunate faulty perception of what success is... but at the same time, I think everybody would agree that the organization has not been firing on all cylinders in a crowded field of contenders. Those fans want to have an answer as to why (even if they have to make one up), and they want to see the "problem"... "fixed". I wouldn't be too hard on those people. I honestly think that other corps (one in particular) have had more people hate them (unfortunately) just because of who they are than the Cadets have ever had. Exactly. That's the reason I get so fired up. Back when I marched, to me, the epitome of the activity were Garfield and Vanguard. Two competitive juggernauts who handled both victory and defeat with such class and grace. I doesn't matter whether or not people think I like or hate the Cadets, but I can tell you, I wouldn't be posting on here if I didn't care about the Cadets. Honestly, if it were the Blue Devils who were in this position, I wouldn't be saying anything. Same with Bluecoats or Cavies. While I respect these corps for their achievements, I'm not really fans of them. I don't think I've even read the 2017 Blue Devils or Bluecoats threads. I love the Cadets. I want to see them do well, and I want to like their shows. Been hard to do as of late. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, henry7184 said: Exactly. That's the reason I get so fired up. Back when I marched, to me, the epitome of the activity were Garfield and Vanguard. Two competitive juggernauts who handled both victory and defeat with such class and grace. I doesn't matter whether or not people think I like or hate the Cadets, but I can tell you, I wouldn't be posting on here if I didn't care about the Cadets. Honestly, if it were the Blue Devils who were in this position, I wouldn't be saying anything. Same with Bluecoats or Cavies. While I respect these corps for their achievements, I'm not really fans of them. I don't think I've even read the 2017 Blue Devils or Bluecoats threads. I love the Cadets. I want to see them do well, and I want to like their shows. Been hard to do as of late. I think that the important thing is that part in bold. With a crowded field (which wasn't often the case 'back in the day'), doing well may still mean 5th place... and that's true for any contender right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post George Dixon Posted June 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2017 Wow a lot of groaning and moaning in this thread Cadets member are in Indy today and tomorrow at a great indoor rehearsal facility. They had an improved run thru last night, highly enjoyable to watch, (and they seem to enjoy performing) and are working on big picture things to have a good performance tomorrow night its not fair to judge the 2017 June 20th Cadets by August finals 1987 standards. That was a great time and place and a whole bunch of pieces fell in place to create, literally, magic on a foot ball field 18 seasons later in 2005 Cadets swept all captions at finals and set the highest score ever (at the time) dominating not only captions but all subcations. Another 6 seasons later they brought the LOS crowd out of their seats for a huge standing O for the final TWO Minutes of their program. Wow! A younger corps this year with some new staff and some return folks. Let's give them our support and some space to learn and grow and breath And remember - it's not where you start it's where you finish! This show will start dirty with some rough parts. I see it surging in August! Have a great seasons Cadets! 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I'll reserve judgement when the show with all its unis/props, is on the field with some cleaning under their belt. Im amazed people on here can condemn a show so early especially when the past few years we've seen corps come out on fire an fizzle out in mid July and other shows look like nothing early on and gel late season. Edited June 21, 2017 by Tobias 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, George Dixon said: Wow a lot of groaning and moaning in this thread Cadets member are in Indy today and tomorrow at a great indoor rehearsal facility. They had an improved run thru last night, highly enjoyable to watch, (and they seem to enjoy performing) and are working on big picture things to have a good performance tomorrow night its not fair to judge the 2017 June 20th Cadets by August finals 1987 standards. That was a great time and place and a whole bunch of pieces fell in place to create, literally, magic on a foot ball field 18 seasons later in 2005 Cadets swept all captions at finals and set the highest score ever (at the time) dominating not only captions but all subcations. Another 6 seasons later they brought the LOS crowd out of their seats for a huge standing O for the final TWO Minutes of their program. Wow! A younger corps this year with some new staff and some return folks. Let's give them our support and some space to learn and grow and breath And remember - it's not where you start it's where you finish! This show will start dirty with some rough parts. I see it surging in August! Have a great seasons Cadets! I call it vitriol hate. Last year was my least favorite Crown show (and this year is close), but I expressed it as "great talent, not quite following the show arc" or " not being drawn in yet like I usually am" but here it's a venomous feeding frenzy and then one troll after another jump into the thread, can give you a head ache. You'd think they opened the show with a swastika. I DONT KNOW WHERE CADETS WILL PLACE THURSDAY OR IN AUGUST but I like what they're doing a lot even in it's rawest form. In 2014 I was sucked in to Cadets early high level of performance and was wowed but as others caught up, Cadets show started to just go flat. SO, I tend to watch where they go from June not what they do in June. Edited June 21, 2017 by Tobias 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, George Dixon said: Wow a lot of groaning and moaning in this thread Cadets member are in Indy today and tomorrow at a great indoor rehearsal facility. They had an improved run thru last night, highly enjoyable to watch, (and they seem to enjoy performing) and are working on big picture things to have a good performance tomorrow night its not fair to judge the 2017 June 20th Cadets by August finals 1987 standards. That was a great time and place and a whole bunch of pieces fell in place to create, literally, magic on a foot ball field 18 seasons later in 2005 Cadets swept all captions at finals and set the highest score ever (at the time) dominating not only captions but all subcations. Another 6 seasons later they brought the LOS crowd out of their seats for a huge standing O for the final TWO Minutes of their program. Wow! A younger corps this year with some new staff and some return folks. Let's give them our support and some space to learn and grow and breath And remember - it's not where you start it's where you finish! This show will start dirty with some rough parts. I see it surging in August! Have a great seasons Cadets! Please - I'm not judging the 2017 Cadets based on 1987 standards. I'm judging the 2017 Cadets based on 2017 standards. I know the judges sheets well, and frankly this design is not going to score well on those sheets come June, July or August, without massive changes. I'm talking a nearly complete overhaul. If I'm wrong, I will eat crow, but I don't think I'm wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, henry7184 said: If I'm wrong, I will eat crow I'd think a communion wafer might be more appropriate, after which you'd be Forgiven. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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