henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Tobias said: I call it vitriol hate. Last year was my least favorite Crown show (and this year is close), but I expressed it as "great talent, not quite following the show arc" or " not being drawn in yet like I usually am" but here it's a venomous feeding frenzy and then one troll after another jump into the thread, can give you a head ache. You'd think they opened the show with a swastika. I DONT KNOW WHERE CADETS WILL PLACE THURSDAY OR IN AUGUST but I like what they're doing a lot even in it's rawest form. In 2014 I was sucked in to Cadets early high level of performance and was wowed but as others caught up, Cadets show started to just go flat. SO, I tend to watch where they go from June not what they do in June. I haven't seen any hatred expressed on this thread by anyone but you, calling us trolls. This is a discussion board, and we are discussing the merits of a show. If you don't like people's comments ignore them. It's that simple. I didn't like Crown last year either, but it was still an exceptionally well designed show, and the judges rewarded it as such. Cadets 2011 was far from one of my favorite Cadet shows, but it was designed exceptionally well and deserved to win. It's not as much about liking or not liking a show, as much as it is about design. In 2015 Crown really enhanced their show as the season progressed, really turning it into an exceptional and thrilling show. But, they started with a good, solid product. It's my opinion that the Cadets don't have a good or solid product to start the season. Edited June 21, 2017 by henry7184 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, Eleran said: I'd think a communion wafer might be more appropriate, after which you'd be Forgiven. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamer Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, henry7184 said: I haven't seen any hatred expressed on this thread by anyone but you, calling us trolls. This is a discussion board, and we are discussing the merits of a show. If you don't like people's comments ignore them. It's that simple. I didn't like Crown last year either, but it was still an exceptionally well designed show, and the judges rewarded it as such. Cadets 2011 was far from one of my favorite Cadet shows, but it was designed exceptionally well and deserved to win. It's not as much about liking or not liking a show, as much as it is about design. In 2015 Crown really enhanced their show as the season progressed, really turning it into an exceptional and thrilling show. But, they started with a good, solid product. It's my opinion that the Cadets don't have a good or solid product to start the season. If that were true, this thread wouldn't have thousands more posts than the other corps threads .:l 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, henry7184 said: I haven't seen any hatred expressed on this thread by anyone but you, calling us trolls. This is a discussion board, and we are discussing the merits of a show. If you don't like people's comments ignore them. It's that simple. I didn't like Crown last year either, but it was still an exceptionally well designed show, and the judges rewarded it as such. Cadets 2011 was far from one of my favorite Cadet shows, but it was designed exceptionally well and deserved to win. It's not as much about liking or not liking a show, as much as it is about design. In 2015 Crown really enhanced their show as the season progressed, really turning it into an exceptional and thrilling show. But, they started with a good, solid product. It's my opinion that the Cadets don't have a good or solid product to start the season. I have no reason to doubt you know the judging sheets, but Tom Aungst (with Crown the past few years), Drew Shanefield (with Cavies during some of their power years) are not oblivious to the activity. I've seen several practice vids and have yet to see the show with costuming etc but how are you able to look at s design at such a preliminary form and condemn it? I'm not being sarcastic, but isn't there some artistic liberty that judges give a corps to express their show? Some more blatant, some more subtle? Just curious... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Tobias said: I have no reason to doubt you know the judging sheets, but Tom Aungst (with Crown the past few years), Drew Shanefield (with Cavies during some of their power years) are not oblivious to the activity. I've seen several practice vids and have yet to see the show with costuming etc but how are you able to look at s design at such a preliminary form and condemn it? I'm not being sarcastic, but isn't there some artistic liberty that judges give a corps to express their show? Some more blatant, some more subtle? Just curious... Simple - it's not a good design, musically or visually. That's why. I'm not being sarcastic either. Sometimes when someone is doing something for years and years it can become hard to see that what you are doing can maybe be better. Things can become stale. Good ideas can disappear. It can be hard not to have a fixed mindset. I thought when Fiedler went to Vanguard and Mason to Madison that those two corps were going to be back in the top within a few years. It didn't happen in either case, yet Fiedler was responsible for a slew of championship shows with the Cavaliers (and bringing them from a lower placing finalist to champion), and Mason put some of the best shows on the field while he was with Star (growing them from literally nothing into a champion). It takes a team, the right team, not just one person or a few people. It takes leadership that values the contributions and opinions of all team members. I'm not saying Hopkins doesn't, because I have zero insight into the inner workings of the Cadets. I'm just saying it takes a team of people, and people willing to stand up and say, "Stop. Wait. What are we doing?" or "I'm not so sure about this." Things like that. If the Cadets turn it around and make changes and give us a great design come August, I will be happy that I was wrong. All I have to judge them by is what I'm seeing on the field at this moment. Edited June 21, 2017 by henry7184 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, henry7184 said: Simple - it's not a good design, musically or visually. That's why. i think what people are getting at is that simply saying "it's not a good design, musically or visually" or "Mass is a wonderful piece, just not in the this arrangement" or "isn't even close to being a good design. It's not interesting musically, the drill is a mess (to be frank), the theme doesn't cut it, and the uniforms are awful" without even once offering up a single specific instance of what exactly is so poor about the arrangement, drill, costumes, theme, etc., leaves readers with the opinion that you are here for no other reason than to rail against the Cadets. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass34 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Henry. You've literally made the same post with almost identical wording about 20 times now. I think we all understand your opinion. You don't have to keep making the same post over and over. You come across as spam or a troll when you do that. I respect your opinion and thank you for sharing, but you sound like a broken record at this point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shewhois Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, henry7184 said: Simple - it's not a good design, musically or visually. That's why. I'm not being sarcastic either. Sometimes when someone is doing something for years and years it can become hard to see that what you are doing can maybe be better. Things can become stale. Good ideas can disappear. It can be hard not to have a fixed mindset. I thought when Fiedler went to Vanguard and Mason to Madison that those two corps were going to be back in the top within a few years. It didn't happen in either case, yet Fiedler was responsible for a slew of championship shows with the Cavaliers (and bringing them from a lower placing finalist to champion), and Mason put some of the best shows on the field while he was with Star (growing them from literally nothing into a champion). It takes a team, the right team, not just one person or a few people. It takes leadership that values the contributions and opinions of all team members. I'm not saying Hopkins doesn't, because I have zero insight into the inner workings of the Cadets. I'm just saying it takes a team of people, and people willing to stand up and say, "Stop. Wait. What are we doing?" or "I'm not so sure about this." Things like that. If the Cadets turn it around and make changes and give us a great design come August, I will be happy that I was wrong. All I have to judge them by is what I'm seeing on the field at this moment. I'm genuinely interested to hear specifics about your opinion. I like The Cadets and have seen their show; I love it but I know it's not perfect (not many shows in June are). What do you think the biggest issues are? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Design is a difficult thing to really evaluate this time of year. In a few more weeks we will have a better idea. No doubt some shows come out of the gate stronger than others. In some cases that is due to stronger talent and/or experience, stronger design, or both. By the way, I see some folks saying they didn't like Crown's design last year. For me, that was one of my favorite shows of the summer, along with Bluecoats, SCV, and Academy. We all just have different tastes. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 So I just checked the calendar and ... did you know ... the Cadets' first show hasn't even happened yet? From the amount of angst about the show design in the thread, you'd think it was August 8th and they were sitting in 10th place. Yes, the Cadets have had design problems in recent years. Yes, some other corps have zagged and Cadets are still zigging. But how about we let them perform their show, and see how audiences and judges react to it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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