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Cadets 2017


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7 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:

People gotta also remember, and I'm a little guilty of this too:  They don't have the ending on the field yet, and they're still close to the top group.

No idea if it will help, but their show was short yesterday night, so I would guess that a full show will improve the scores.

4 points is not close.

0.6 points separated gold and bronze in Indy last year.  Three corps within almost a half a point.

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3 minutes ago, chaddyt said:

4 points is not close.

0.6 points separated gold and bronze in Indy last year.  Three corps within almost a half a point.

Well, I wasn't specifically talking about the number one stop, I just meant top 5 or 6. I'll eat a banana if Cadets wins this year. That's not the point this year. The point is to stay in the top half of finals and not drop to 9th....

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3 minutes ago, chaddyt said:

4 points is not close.

0.6 points separated gold and bronze in Indy last year.  Three corps within almost a half a point.

When we look at a corps like Madison they beat BK by almost 2 points and Academy by almost 6 points at mid Cal last year. They didn't even make finals where those other two corps were safely performing on Saturday, for better or for worse change in placement is not only possible but probable. 

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1 minute ago, jjeffeory said:

Well, I wasn't specifically talking about the number one stop, I just meant top 5 or 6. I'll eat a banana if Cadets wins this year. That's not the point this year. The point is to stay in the top half of finals and not drop to 9th....

Gotcha. I don't see them staying in the top 6 this year, but I'm hoping they prove me wrong.

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Just now, chaddyt said:

Gotcha. I don't see them staying in the top 6 this year, but I'm hoping they prove me wrong.

I agree with you completely, but I'm trying to keep an open mind for at least another month.

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1 hour ago, George Dixon said:

well we had the z-pull, we've had the double z-pull and we've had the "S" pull in 90. So... I believe we are due for side-by-side triple lutz?

A Jagged Line???

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So can someone explain how anyone can possibly pass judgment about where this show is going to end up when not all precincts are in?  Is this show amazing at this point, no.  But is there room for growth?  Yes.  And for anyone to say that it, categorically, will not be top six is a real stetch.  There is a whole lot of season to go, and 4 points behind a show that was (quite frankly) not as amazing and fresh as lasr season is nothing at this point.  It is about how high you score in August, not the first show.  Patience and faith.

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59 minutes ago, Tony L. said:

So can someone explain how anyone can possibly pass judgment about where this show is going to end up when not all precincts are in?  Is this show amazing at this point, no.  But is there room for growth?  Yes.  And for anyone to say that it, categorically, will not be top six is a real stetch.  There is a whole lot of season to go, and 4 points behind a show that was (quite frankly) not as amazing and fresh as lasr season is nothing at this point.  It is about how high you score in August, not the first show.  Patience and faith.

Because if you go by recent history, it doesn't bode well for the Cadets passing anyone up during the season. The last season they beat corps that beat them at one point during the season was 2011. For the past 5 seasons, they have been passed up by 1 or more corps to finish lower than where they started. It's a recent trend. It will obviously be broken at some point, but I don't think this year will be the year.

2012 - Cadets beat both Crown and Regiment at the first show of the season (Regiment more than the first show), and finished behind them at finals (2.5 down from Crown and 1.5 down from Regiment).

2013 - Cadets start out undefeated in the east (due to the absence of Crown). They beat both Crown and BD mid- to late-July and finish 3rd (more than a point down from both, and only 0.05 ahead of SCV, a corps they beat by over 2 points mid-July).

2014 - Beat Bluecoats by 3.25 at the first show of the season, and lose to Bluecoats by 0.3 at finals.

2015 - Beat everyone at DCI Minnesota and DCI Southwestern, finish 4th at finals.

2016 - Beat Cavies by 2.6 at the end of June and finish 1.3 behind at finals. Also beat Santa Clara three times but finished 2.3 behind them at finals.

So, if you're going to argue the Cadets are only 4 points down from Bluecoats and are going to clean up and close the gap, history doesn't support that argument. At least recent history. I do not believe they will be top 6 come finals, but that's my opinion.

And Bluecoats design was hands down the best last night. They will contend for another title for sure. It was absolutely fresh, innovative, and I believe it to be a better vehicle than last year. It was nothing short of remarkable. Absolutely astounding.

Edited by henry7184
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4 minutes ago, henry7184 said:

Because if you go by recent history, it doesn't bode well for the Cadets passing anyone up during the season. The last season they beat corps that beat them at one point during the season was 2011. For the past 5 seasons, they have been passed up by 1 or more corps to finish lower than where they started. It's a recent trend. It will obviously be broken at some point, but I don't think this year will be the year.

2012 - Cadets beat both Crown and Regiment at the first show of the season, and finish behind them at finals (2.5 down from Crown and 1.5 down from Regiment).

2013 - Cadets start out undefeated in the east (due to the absence of Crown). They beat both Crown and BD mid- to late-July and finish 3rd (more than a point down from both, and 0.05 ahead of SCV, a corps they beat by over 2 points mid-July).

2014 - Beat Bluecoats by 3.25 at the first show of the season, and lose to Bluecoats by 0.3 at finals.

2015 - Beat everyone at DCI Minnesota and DCI Southwestern, finish 4th at finals.

2016 - Beat Cavies by 2.6 at the end of June and finish 1.3 behind at finals. Also beat Santa Clara three times but finished 2.3 behind them at finals.

So, if you're going to argue the Cadets are only 4 points down from Bluecoats and are going to clean up and close the gap, history doesn't support that argument. 

Helpful stats.  Thans for the research, but quite frankly other than 2015 and perhaps 2014, the Cadets shows during this sample really don't measure up to really good shows.  I have no illusions, this show is not likely to win, but, it is something that I think they need to explore.  I think that they will end up like a great (recent) SCV show where they will get a tremendous 4th or 5th place.  But they will set the stage for a show next year with  The Age of Anxiety and Jeremiah Symphony where they will take that next step.  

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4 minutes ago, Tony L. said:

Helpful stats.  Thans for the research, but quite frankly other than 2015 and perhaps 2014, the Cadets shows during this sample really don't measure up to really good shows.  I have no illusions, this show is not likely to win, but, it is something that I think they need to explore.  I think that they will end up like a great (recent) SCV show where they will get a tremendous 4th or 5th place.  But they will set the stage for a show next year with  The Age of Anxiety and Jeremiah Symphony where they will take that next step.  

Oh gosh, Jeremiah is one of my favorite openings ever. To be fair, I do think they should have been 3rd in 2015. I thought that show was just remarkable, and the top 4 were all really great that year. I also liked the 2012, 2013 and 2014 shows. I think the Cadets took a downturn last year and that will continue this year. But, I'm just posting statistics on where they started and finished over the past 5 seasons. Also, a 4 point gap today is a lot larger than it was in the past. A whole lot larger.

Edited by henry7184
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