Liahona Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 monster guard staff ? it was largely a rotating set of crown age outs. remember Adam Sage was caption supervisor in 09-11 with his staff. there were two constants. 1) M. Townsend 2) the members. i think they will still recruit great talent. i think the '17 staff will write great work. will it be Michael's work? nope. but it will be top tier. and the performers will come. as for Keith, it was hit an miss wasn't it ? there were times when design choices clearly held the corps back a little. also remember it was a design TEAM; two members of that team are gone but other members are not. certainly no guarantee's here. but IMHO they're not gonna miss a beat and will be stronger in a caption that occasionally hurt them a little (VA). You seem to have left out Herbert who has been a good part of their guard program and writing these recent years...he is gone as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Idk. That was a monster guard staff and Keith really was there when Crown was becoming Crown. Not sure it's as easy as you say to replace. Still think Crown has a rebuilding year in 2017. Great brass, Jeff will write a great drill BUT Cadets had all that (OTT award brass, top percussion) a Jeff drill and still came in 4th in 2015. I Just think you're ambitious with the new guard and viz people but I get it. I did the same for the Cadets 2016. I tend to think assimilation of new blood will be easier at CC because there is such a strong understanding of what a CC show is supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 You seem to have left out Herbert who has been a good part of their guard program and writing these recent years...he is gone as well. well -- he's grown into his current position no doubt. but his contribution was split between marching, tech'ing, and then eventually writing. so he was not a constant on the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) monster guard staff ? it was largely a rotating set of crown age outs. remember Adam Sage was caption supervisor in 09-11 with his staff. there were two constants. 1) M. Townsend 2) the members. i think they will still recruit great talent. i think the '17 staff will write great work. will it be Michael's work? nope. but it will be top tier. and the performers will come. as for Keith, it was hit an miss wasn't it ? there were times when design choices clearly held the corps back a little. also remember it was a design TEAM; two members of that team are gone but other members are not. certainly no guarantee's here. but IMHO they're not gonna miss a beat and will be stronger in a caption that occasionally hurt them a little (VA). Perception is everything as Tobias is just another example of that perception...and many others I've spoken to as well feel the same...It's hard to tell what's going to happen....but I also think Crown "may" be in a slight rebuilding year...that may only just mean not in contention for a title...but still strongly in the top 5 IMO... Edited September 13, 2016 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Perception is everything as Tobias is just another example of that perception...and many others I've spoken to as well feel the same...It's hard to tell what's going to happen....but I also think Crown "may" be in a slight rebuilding year...that may only just mean not in contention for a title...but still strongly in the top 5 IMO... you assume that everyone that shows up for crown (or any other corps for that matter) knows who is going where. this all big news for DCPr's but many folks have no idea who Michael Townsend or Rick Subel are. they audition at corps whose shows they liked. heck ill bet many folks here STILL have no idea who M. Townsend is other than he's moved from Crown to BAC. perhaps some team indiana kids will switch. but i think some team texas and team atlanta kids will be quite happy to step into those spots! Edited September 13, 2016 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 monster guard staff ? it was largely a rotating set of crown age outs. remember Adam Sage was caption supervisor in 09-11 with his staff. there were two constants. 1) M. Townsend 2) the members. i think they will still recruit great talent. i think the '17 staff will write great work. will it be Michael's work? nope. but it will be top tier. and the performers will come. as for Keith, it was hit an miss wasn't it ? there were times when design choices clearly held the corps back a little. also remember it was a design TEAM; two members of that team are gone but other members are not. certainly no guarantee's here. but IMHO they're not gonna miss a beat and will be stronger in a caption that occasionally hurt them a little (VA). In regards to the members, The Pride and Crown connection that once existed for Crown to pull in the top talent in the activity is no longer there (Via Townsend) Yes they may get an influx of Paramount members now, but realistically speaking that is a step down in Talent. This top Talent (IMO) is what made the Crown Guard so special because they could put the hardest, most effective work out there and pull it off. (Ensemble Rifle phrases/ Quads, 5's) I know of at least one Guard performer from this past year at Crown that is auditioning at Pride this weekend. The connection will remain and in questioning that Member last week was undecided where they were going to march next year. I venture to say that if they make Pride and devote the next 7 months of their life to Pride and Townsend, that a good majority of Pride performers who are eligible will follow Townsend to BAC. To most Guard Members the WGI group is the premier place, and in order to stay in good graces with that staff will stay with that staff through the summer to make sure that you don't lose the technique and rapport with the staff. This WGI season will determine how the Talent pool shakes up next summer. If Paramount has an off year (Lower than top 5) will they be able to retain Vets who want to be part of a great Guard during the summer? Time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relics Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 In regards to the members, The Pride and Crown connection that once existed for Crown to pull in the top talent in the activity is no longer there (Via Townsend) Yes they may get an influx of Paramount members now, but realistically speaking that is a step down in Talent. This top Talent (IMO) is what made the Crown Guard so special because they could put the hardest, most effective work out there and pull it off. (Ensemble Rifle phrases/ Quads, 5's) I know of at least one Guard performer from this past year at Crown that is auditioning at Pride this weekend. The connection will remain and in questioning that Member last week was undecided where they were going to march next year. I venture to say that if they make Pride and devote the next 7 months of their life to Pride and Townsend, that a good majority of Pride performers who are eligible will follow Townsend to BAC. To most Guard Members the WGI group is the premier place, and in order to stay in good graces with that staff will stay with that staff through the summer to make sure that you don't lose the technique and rapport with the staff. This WGI season will determine how the Talent pool shakes up next summer. If Paramount has an off year (Lower than top 5) will they be able to retain Vets who want to be part of a great Guard during the summer? Time will tell. Ya but... Many of the 2016 Crown guard members are veterans of Paramount, Etude, and other winter guards (not just Pride), and they may be even more enthusiastic with the change in design and guard staff. Also, 2015 was supposed to be a rebuilding year with all the 2014 ageouts, but had a great work and team ethic that performed the hell out of the material. My gut says that the incoming staff may seem to be an unknown in their fit into the crown system, but will immediately come together as a team and create a memorable first season together. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) In regards to the members, The Pride and Crown connection that once existed for Crown to pull in the top talent in the activity is no longer there (Via Townsend) Yes they may get an influx of Paramount members now, but realistically speaking that is a step down in Talent. This top Talent (IMO) is what made the Crown Guard so special because they could put the hardest, most effective work out there and pull it off. (Ensemble Rifle phrases/ Quads, 5's) I know of at least one Guard performer from this past year at Crown that is auditioning at Pride this weekend. The connection will remain and in questioning that Member last week was undecided where they were going to march next year. I venture to say that if they make Pride and devote the next 7 months of their life to Pride and Townsend, that a good majority of Pride performers who are eligible will follow Townsend to BAC. To most Guard Members the WGI group is the premier place, and in order to stay in good graces with that staff will stay with that staff through the summer to make sure that you don't lose the technique and rapport with the staff. This WGI season will determine how the Talent pool shakes up next summer. If Paramount has an off year (Lower than top 5) will they be able to retain Vets who want to be part of a great Guard during the summer? Time will tell. well that connection was Crown --> Pride not the other way around. so yeah -- a number of Crownies marched there (but heck so do a lot of Cavaliers!) did Crownies go there to march with MT or to march with their fellow Crown members? probably a little of both. As I said -- no doubt some members will follow MT. but i think a substantial number of vets will come back to Crown because it's their corps now. many vets are "on the fence" for every season they march. but when november rolls around, they can't help it -- they want to go back! (oh and what do you know, a number of Crownies also marched at Paramount this past season ! guess Paramount kids are good enough to make Crown! ) time will indeed tell. Edited September 13, 2016 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 but i think a substantial number of vets will come back to Crown because it's their corps now. This hasn't been the case for decades...members move from corps to corps...even in the upper echelon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) This hasn't been the case for decades...members move from corps to corps...even in the upper echelon... some -- sure. happens everywhere. but retention improves as you ascend the ranks. finalist corps (for eg) retain better than non-finalists. Edited September 13, 2016 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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