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Carolina Crown 2017


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 Corps are utilizinng vocalists more and more because, unlike a brass soloist that fracks a note, if a vocalist soloist fracks a singing note, there is little to no loss of build up credit on the sheets. if a brass soloist plays out of tune however, they would get crucified on the current sheets. But if singing soloists sing out of tune, or if their singing is flat, etc most of the current DCI judges, to the best of my knowledge, never  were really trained in college or in their professional careers to know much about proper singing techniques any more than the man in the moon, or somebody that tosses a flag, or posts on DCP, but never played a musical instrument, or never sang( except maybe in the shower ). My guess then, the G7 Corps singers will get far more build up points on the current DCI judging sheets for their singing abilities than any singer or singers in the non G7 Corps in competition. Guess we'll have to see though. Does DCI have a " vocals " caption judge ? if not......why not ? If your Corps features and prominently displays in the show, soloists that are going to be singers, the fact that there is not a specified vocalist caption judge to judge that singing technique, demand, complexity, control, projection, and so forth etc is pretty downright silly and not very progressive, nor up with the changing times if you ask me. Brass playing performers are currently judged on brass sheets, GE sheets & visual sheets. A vocalist that just stands and sings for example, is judged on just the GE sheets ( what else ? ).... so sure, savvy Corps in DCI now would be foolish NOT to have singer(s) in the band now.

Edited by BRASSO
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4 hours ago, BRASSO said:

 Corps are utilizinng vocalists more and more because, unlike a brass soloist that fracks a note, if a vocalist soloist fracks a singing note, there is little to no loss of build up credit on the sheets. if a brass soloist plays out of tune however, they would get crucified on the current sheets. But if singing soloists sing out of tune, or if their singing is flat, etc most of the current DCI judges, to the best of my knowledge, never  were really trained in college or in their professional careers to know much about proper singing techniques any more than the man in the moon, or somebody that tosses a flag, or posts on DCP, but never played a musical instrument, or never sang( except maybe in the shower ). My guess then, the G7 Corps singers will get far more build up points on the current DCI judging sheets for their singing abilities than any singer or singers in the non G7 Corps in competition. Guess we'll have to see though. Does DCI have a " vocals " caption judge ? if not......why not ? If your Corps features and prominently displays in the show, soloists that are going to be singers, the fact that there is not a specified vocalist caption judge to judge that singing technique, demand, complexity, control, projection, and so forth etc is pretty downright silly and not very progressive, nor up with the changing times if you ask me. Brass playing performers are currently judged on brass sheets, GE sheets & visual sheets. A vocalist that just stands and sings for example, is judged on just the GE sheets ( what else ? ).... so sure, savvy Corps in DCI now would be foolish NOT to have singer(s) in the band now.

Hey so a couple things here...

1. Can't be the only one who finds it interesting that Cadets first ask for vocalists auditions for "choir" and then Crown ask for vocalist for "female soloist" - not exactly the same thing implied. My understanding is Cadets will be weaving an 8 part choral sound into the music - particularly the intro and the ballad. Think Voces8 ala http://www.voces8.com/ and songs like 

 with the 8 parts blended pretty seemlessly into the 4 part brass choir. That's the intention as I understand it

In Crown's case the female soloist alludes to more of a lyric stand-alone quality - which can be very interesting as well

Point is - the uses / intents seem quite different

2. Is Crown doing a "story" based show - such as Hamilton, The Heights, or something else similar? They did post "we have a show!" picture of the design team in NYC... Interesting if true. I had pictured them (with the staff in place) being very successful redoing 1990 Star's program in their own way...

3. Regarding judging - music ensemble and GE will be where these points pile up - or do not. I know Cadets will be using a very advanced 8 speaker type set up with a trac system ala Coats to weave the choir into the program - all kinds of sound engineering issues to lock these things in

I'm personally excited for both!

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 In a highly subjective endeavor to begin with, things were so much easier for music ensemble caption judges to compare and contrast with was " better " among corps when the sound was transmitted by similar instrumentations, ie similar brass instruments, percussion instruments utilized. Once we introduce completely dissimilar " voices " into the equation, no longer is it humanely possible for ANY trained judge to tell us which is " better ". This is because the sound that is produced has absolutely nothing at all in common with one another. For example, a band that has soprano singing voices produces a musical sound that has absolutely nothing in common with a band that has no singing voices in its judged performance. The musical sounds are considered to be totally unlike one another in all respects. Thus, DCI judges now are required under the laws of physics, ie " sound " to now tell us which of the " sounds " they prefer, ie, which sound they personally prefer to hear.  The judges can continue to properly instruct us as to to what sound coming forth that they " like ". They can no longer tell us however which musical sounds produced is " better ", as no amount of musical training at ANY University allows them the training and expertise to tell us what musical sounds produced from wholly dissimilar " voices " is  " better ". The Laws of Science, ie of physics alone, makes such an effort humanly impossible for any human being, irrespective of their level of music training and education and professional/personal experiences. In such an environment, politics will more than likely fill the void and will likely play an ever more increasing role in these judged performances, imo.

Edited by BRASSO
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33 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 In a highly subjective endeavor to begin with, things were so much easier for music ensemble caption judges to compare and contrast with was " better " among corps when the sound was transmitted by similar instrumentations, ie similar brass instruments, percussion instruments utilized. Once we introduce completely dissimilar " voices " into the equation, no longer is it humanely possible for ANY trained judge to tell us which is " better ". This is because the sound that is produced has absolutely nothing at all in common with one another. For example, a band that has soprano singing voices produces a musical sound that has absolutely nothing in common with a band that has no singing voices in its judged performance. The musical sounds are considered to be totally unlike one another in all respects. Thus, DCI judges now are required under the laws of physics, ie " sound " to now tell us which of the " sounds " they prefer, ie, which sound they personally prefer to hear.  The judges can continue to properly instruct us as to to what sound coming forth that they " like ". They can no longer tell us however which musical sounds produced is " better ", as no amount of musical training at ANY University allows them the training and expertise to tell us what musical sounds produced from wholly dissimilar " voices " is  " better ". The Laws of Science, ie of physics alone, makes such an effort humanly impossible for any human being, irrespective of their level of music training and education and professional/personal experiences. In such an environment, politics will more than likely fill the void and will likely play an ever more increasing role in these judged performances, imo.

That is just 100% untrue, as has been demonstrated by the thousands of competitive HS marching band competitions spanning decades.

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1 hour ago, MikeD said:

That is just 100% untrue, as has been demonstrated by the thousands of competitive HS marching band competitions spanning decades.

But he cited "the laws of physics" so it must be true. :doh: Exactly what laws of physics prevent proper adjudication is apparently too complex for us commoners to comprehend.

As for the Cadets -- if can they produce a product like that in the video it will be stunning. FWIW I don't expect to hear Voces8 on the field.  

As for Crown -- guess we'll have to wait and see what they have in mind.  A single female voice can be used in a multitude of ways so nothing's been "revealed" by the post.  

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YAAAAAAY, now the Cadets won't be the only corps to be absolutely destroyed for using voice.

 

Just Kidding. 

I have become a little more open-minded when it comes to using voice primarily because of the sampling that was used in Cadets 2011 and Crown 2015. If it sounds something like that, or better, then I am sure I will like it as well.

Edited by 2000Cadet
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Good afternoon/evening/night/morning all.

John Donovan continues to work on tuning up the board and the program is still updating in the background that may explain some of the glitches...to keep this thread on topic, please post your issues and discuss in the Member Service Center Forum.  

thanks for your patience and understanding....carry on.

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