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9 minutes ago, Big Adam said:

A large portion of DCA corps have announced their shows or selections just for recruitment reasons but I can tell you without diving into it too much into it, it has caused a small hurdle that we are trying to jump right now.

So to your earlier point I don't think it's a matter of corps "getting over themselves", it's a matter of rights issues and strategy. 

Two separate comments...

Do you really think show announcements help with recruiting efforts?  I say this only based on my own personal experience and nothing more...When I marched corps (a few decades ago...yikes) I actually didn't even know what the music was going to be or what it was about...it did not influence my decision in any way...if it was for music sake then at the time I'd definitely would have marched Phantom Regiment...I just loved what they were doing at the time from a music perspective...

I concede my point on the rights front...I respectfully disagree on the strategy front...I'd argue it is a poor strategy on the corps part from a marketing perspective IMO...

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38 minutes ago, Liahona said:

Two separate comments...

Do you really think show announcements help with recruiting efforts?  I say this only based on my own personal experience and nothing more...When I marched corps (a few decades ago...yikes) I actually didn't even know what the music was going to be or what it was about...it did not influence my decision in any way...if it was for music sake then at the time I'd definitely would have marched Phantom Regiment...I just loved what they were doing at the time from a music perspective...

I concede my point on the rights front...I respectfully disagree on the strategy front...I'd argue it is a poor strategy on the corps part from a marketing perspective IMO...

Having marched in the late 90's, I can say that I didn't march Madison based on a show announcement or concept. Even now, I don't think I would decide where to march based on  a show announcement or concept. I mean, even the best of ideas may have tragic results on the field, and the most obscure or mundane seeming concepts may soar. 

I really don't believe that show announcements would change recruiting at all. 

There's never been a season that we've had a majority of show announcements before auditions begin, so I think the argument that some might make that it helps or hinders recruiting is a moot point. 

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Yeah, I didn't think before, and especially now that my kiddo is marching, that the show really impacts recruiting in a particular year.  Over cumulative years it might - nobody goes to Phantom because of their tremendous success with jazz fusion - but definitely not for an upcoming year.

But in advertising, engagement, brand awareness to customers... I think it *does* have a tremendous impact.  It's much easier to sell tickets to the youth theater production when you can tell people what they're paying to see, you know?

Mike

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17 minutes ago, Liahona said:

Two separate comments...

Do you really think show announcements help with recruiting efforts?  I say this only based on my own personal experience and nothing more...When I marched corps (a few decades ago...yikes) I actually didn't even know what the music was going to be or what it was about...it did not influence my decision in any way...if it was for music sake then at the time I'd definitely would have marched Phantom Regiment...I just loved what they were doing at the time from a music perspective...

I concede my point on the rights front...I respectfully disagree on the strategy front...I'd argue it is a poor strategy on the corps part from a marketing perspective IMO...

That's a good conversation. I'm not sure, I think in reality it only accounts for a small percentage of recruiting, but I think a lot of corps think that it does. If nothing else it might get you one or two marchers who are looking to switch corps and it might help wrangle in those one or two vets that are sitting on the fence but I'm not sure. You're right people should just march the corps they want to march just based on their desire, not the show. I marched 04 Cadets cause it was the Cadets not because it was Jethro Tull, haha. I think, however, in DCA recruitment efforts that every little bit helps. 

We can disagree on the strategy thing, that's fine, but I think there's some merit in looking at the trends of last season. Cadets fired one of the first shot in terms of major show design announcements, it bit them in the rear end a bit. I love my former corps and I try to never speak poorly of them. There were a lot, and I mean a lot, of changes that happened over the course of the season. By the end they had a nice product, they could certainly play and march well but the concept never really settled until late in the season. This could happen in the early 90's because the concepts were like "Flying" or "The Planets" so if you wanted to change a whole half of a show no one cared but as a fan every time I saw them last year I felt like I was trying to understand a whole new show. The members probably felt that way too which affected their performance. I feel like if I didn't know the title was originally "Stoned" I probably would have enjoy the show more on my first viewing. I think the final version we got was great and think over time it will grow on a lot more people.  

Crown and Blue Devils didn't let their show announcement go until spring training. I would say they were successful, there was a lot of energy and excitement about their shows when they were released and solid concepts to go with them. The biggest change for Crown over the course of the season was does the person at the end of the show live or do they die? It worked for them, I think they released bits of info at the right time. The clip of Medea was the only thing we had for a while and it was stellar, I loved it. It intrigued me. Then they announced the rest of the show, then the title with like a month to go before the theater show, it built the right kind of excitement for me. Bluecoats are the other extreme of the spectrum they didn't even announce their show title until everyone was sitting in the theater and I think as a result most people were blown away. I thought maybe they were being pretentious and I was annoyed but I'm glad they waited. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I personally would have not enjoyed Bluecoats if I heard their title first. In fact someone I know leaked it to me, I thought they were joking, I literally went "that sounds dumb" and forgot about it. They made such an impact on me with that show that I forgot that someone had told me the title until I just remembered, literally, right now.

I have no evidence to back this up but I'm a data kind of person. Of the top 12, Bluecoats released their show at the last possible second. I believe Crown, BD and SCV were all in late April/May. I don't remember Cavaliers but it was around this time. Cadets and Phantom were the earliest announcements. The rest, Crossmen, BK, Boston, Blue stars and Academy were somewhere around this time. Who was the top four or five and who wasn't. I don't think there's a direct correlation, I'm not saying Phantom didn't win because they announced their show the earliest but it is interesting.

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24 minutes ago, Big Adam said:

That's a good conversation. I'm not sure, I think in reality it only accounts for a small percentage of recruiting, but I think a lot of corps think that it does. If nothing else it might get you one or two marchers who are looking to switch corps and it might help wrangle in those one or two vets that are sitting on the fence but I'm not sure. You're right people should just march the corps they want to march just based on their desire, not the show. I marched 04 Cadets cause it was the Cadets not because it was Jethro Tull, haha. I think, however, in DCA recruitment efforts that every little bit helps. 

We can disagree on the strategy thing, that's fine, but I think there's some merit in looking at the trends of last season. Cadets fired one of the first shot in terms of major show design announcements, it bit them in the rear end a bit. I love my former corps and I try to never speak poorly of them. There were a lot, and I mean a lot, of changes that happened over the course of the season. By the end they had a nice product, they could certainly play and march well but the concept never really settled until late in the season. This could happen in the early 90's because the concepts were like "Flying" or "The Planets" so if you wanted to change a whole half of a show no one cared but as a fan every time I saw them last year I felt like I was trying to understand a whole new show. The members probably felt that way too which affected their performance. I feel like if I didn't know the title was originally "Stoned" I probably would have enjoy the show more on my first viewing. I think the final version we got was great and think over time it will grow on a lot more people.  

Crown and Blue Devils didn't let their show announcement go until spring training. I would say they were successful, there was a lot of energy and excitement about their shows when they were released and solid concepts to go with them. The biggest change for Crown over the course of the season was does the person at the end of the show live or do they die? It worked for them, I think they released bits of info at the right time. The clip of Medea was the only thing we had for a while and it was stellar, I loved it. It intrigued me. Then they announced the rest of the show, then the title with like a month to go before the theater show, it built the right kind of excitement for me. Bluecoats are the other extreme of the spectrum they didn't even announce their show title until everyone was sitting in the theater and I think as a result most people were blown away. I thought maybe they were being pretentious and I was annoyed but I'm glad they waited. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I personally would have not enjoyed Bluecoats if I heard their title first. In fact someone I know leaked it to me, I thought they were joking, I literally went "that sounds dumb" and forgot about it. They made such an impact on me with that show that I forgot that someone had told me the title until I just remembered, literally, right now.

I have no evidence to back this up but I'm a data kind of person. Of the top 12, Bluecoats released their show at the last possible second. I believe Crown, BD and SCV were all in late April/May. I don't remember Cavaliers but it was around this time. Cadets and Phantom were the earliest announcements. The rest, Crossmen, BK, Boston, Blue stars and Academy were somewhere around this time. Who was the top four or five and who wasn't. I don't think there's a direct correlation, I'm not saying Phantom didn't win because they announced their show the earliest but it is interesting.

Lot's of good points in your post...

I honestly think that show announcement 'timing' does not affect competitive placement at all.

In 2014, Boston did not announce their music until just before the movie broadcast for animal farm...didn't do a thing for them...they actually fell 2 placements...Madison Scouts announced their show the day after finals for the 2013 season...same finals result as previous season..so no effect there...as far as Cadets..it was really only last season that their early announcement didn't do much for them...what about other Cadet years when they were successful and announced early? I've also seen corps change the timing of the announcement....I honestly just don't see any correlation between that and competitive success or failure for that matter...

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10 hours ago, Kamarag said:

 

Yea, tell that to Cadets, who were *ravaged* online by fans after the multiple title/concept changes last year.

Tell us when you're ready, designers. We'll wait.

 The Cadets in 2011 were " ravaged " on social media in  preseason for releasing so much info on video, and in a pre season, full show video of the entire music program. It " damaged " the Cadets so much they won the DCI Title that season ( lol!), and presumably all the marchers ( and staffers ) in the Cadets that season got over the " ravaging " on social media and were not " traumatized " by the pre season " ravaging " of their 2011 DCI Title winning show season either..... ,lol!

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6 hours ago, Liahona said:

 

I honestly think that show announcement 'timing' does not affect competitive placement at all.

...

 Me neither. As a matter of fact, there is a mountain of evidence to support the position that NEITHER the early nor the late release of information on a show has any bearing on a Corps ultimate placement that season. There is no connection whatsoever to the timing of the announcement of a show theme, and ultimate placements that season. None. So we should be able to put that false narrative to bed once and for all, it seems to me. Corps ( and their apologists ) will have to come up with some other excuse(s) for going dark for months on end on show music and themes. Heck, copywrites and licensing issues were with us in 2011, and the Cadets were able to be transparent, with LOTS of info, early and often in preseason 2011, and such full transparency and "licensing restrictions "did not effect them one iota in both getting info out to the public early and often, and their ultimate securement of a DCI Title winning season for themselves in 2011.  So this ridiculous new found " Cone of Silence " with these World Class Corps, and its excuse making for it, really is sort of silly, imo

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