larry p Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Big A, (and more) -You'll notice I said competition field. - Of course 4 trombone music majors will have good stuff. If a start up corps is attracting 4 trombone music majors more power to them. I wasn't assuming a start up was attracting 4 trombone music majors alone. At that point you changed my words so of course you can call it invalid. -You aren't breaking anything to me. I don't think a top level corps will be borrowing a sousaphone from the local band unless it's some kind of special effect. - I never said rags to riches. I was talking about starting a corps with the future in mind. - Like said, I hope bones and sousaphones helps.Just not my personal taste for drum corps ( I do like the some bones with baris and euph sound). I don't think we will be inundated with start up corps playing bones and sousaphones this year. .Especially with the idea of "Riches" in 10 years. peace 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Adam Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 All fine..... and preferences are fine..... some people don't like hot sauce, I love it, but I wish people would get out of their heads that in some way the instructors and designers are trying to intentionally ruin drum corps. I'm a fairly young guy that has dedicated almost my whole life to drum corps and am still very actively involved. I've been a member, performer, volunteer, donor, mentor, instructor, drum major, designer, show coordinator and fan. No one loves it more than me..... I'm sure of that. (challenge me on that if you must but I wouldn't...... hahahaha) But in no way shape or form should anybody think that we are now trying to destroy drum corps, as some one who loves it I can tell you that is not the intention and from the current staffs and members of these corps it's frustrating to have our decisions reduced to that mindset. The point I was getting at, and I'm sorry if it seems like I twisted your words, is that this is a very good thing for drum corps. Every major change has brought about the talk of the destruction of drum corps: allowing touring, allowing women, the spinning of flags and weapons, the grounding of pits, the addition of valves, the change of keys etc etc..... but all have returned amazing results...... it's going to be fine, trombones are going to be fine. It's a good thing. There's a lot of upside here and not much downside. That's all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry p Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Oh. You addressed me. I am not some guy who thinks the designers want to "ruin" drum corps. I was a young when I started and I did (do) stay active in all the ways you mentioned. It might be a good thing in drum corps, and as I stated I hope it works. As others have said, the DCI corps have used bones in doses. Trombones are fine. Sousaphones are ehh. It's fine Not a major change.You are correct, there is no real downside.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalieguy Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 12/13/2016 at 10:23 AM, C.Holland said: as a trombone player, i like it. it adds some bite to the low brass that the baris and euphs just don't get. Hey Chris, we HAD low brass with bite BITD.. Baritones (smaller than Bass Baritones) had smaller bores and had much more "bite" than the bigger size baris and euphs put out. But I suspect the sound would be crisper with the smaller, trombone like bores of the old baris and of course those fabulous Tromboniums (NOT) Baris and Euphs today have been used to make that low brass power sound that the old baris ouldn't cover by using massively large mouthpieces to gain the airflow.. Just my .02 worth after 45 years of playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 On 1/24/2017 at 8:18 PM, goalieguy said: Hey Chris, we HAD low brass with bite BITD.. Baritones (smaller than Bass Baritones) had smaller bores and had much more "bite" than the bigger size baris and euphs put out. But I suspect the sound would be crisper with the smaller, trombone like bores of the old baris and of course those fabulous Tromboniums (NOT) Baris and Euphs today have been used to make that low brass power sound that the old baris ouldn't cover by using massively large mouthpieces to gain the airflow.. Just my .02 worth after 45 years of playing. You can fake it to a somewhat reasonable extent. Early 80's Westshore did a pretty good job for that era mimicing that jazz bone vibe. The real trick was not necessarily the diameter of the mouthpiece in that era, it was the throat diameter and depth of the cup. People are still using the Denis Wick 6BY out there in DCA like I used at the end of my competitive run for that very reason. And yeah, those tromboniums were sub-optimal to say the least- The real issue is the resistance a wound-up marching instrument has versus the actual trombone. The modern horns... they play exceptionally well, they're light well-balanced, especially the System Blues, but they're the Drum Corps equivalent of Japanese Zeros. Look at one the wrong way and you're getting out the dent magnet. Put the valve in the wrong way, and you're getting new parts or trying to re-flatten some. All's good when you can replace them every couple of seasons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aLittleBird Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/26/2017 at 3:09 PM, BigW said: You can fake it to a somewhat reasonable extent. Early 80's Westshore did a pretty good job for that era mimicing that jazz bone vibe. The real trick was not necessarily the diameter of the mouthpiece in that era, it was the throat diameter and depth of the cup. People are still using the Denis Wick 6BY out there in DCA like I used at the end of my competitive run for that very reason. And yeah, those tromboniums were sub-optimal to say the least- The real issue is the resistance a wound-up marching instrument has versus the actual trombone. The modern horns... they play exceptionally well, they're light well-balanced, especially the System Blues, but they're the Drum Corps equivalent of Japanese Zeros. Look at one the wrong way and you're getting out the dent magnet. Put the valve in the wrong way, and you're getting new parts or trying to re-flatten some. All's good when you can replace them every couple of seasons... On 1/24/2017 at 8:18 PM, goalieguy said: Hey Chris, we HAD low brass with bite BITD.. Baritones (smaller than Bass Baritones) had smaller bores and had much more "bite" than the bigger size baris and euphs put out. But I suspect the sound would be crisper with the smaller, trombone like bores of the old baris and of course those fabulous Tromboniums (NOT) Baris and Euphs today have been used to make that low brass power sound that the old baris ouldn't cover by using massively large mouthpieces to gain the airflow.. Just my .02 worth after 45 years of playing. I imagine that putting people on instruments from their century (which they are far more likely to be familiar with) will contribute much more to the ensemble sound than a... trombonium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 10 hours ago, aLittleBird said: I imagine that putting people on instruments from their century (which they are far more likely to be familiar with) will contribute much more to the ensemble sound than a... trombonium. From what I was told in period regarding Madison's and Two-seven's Die-nasty Tromboniums from people familiar with them... playing a length of rubber hose cut to the proper length with a funnel duct taped on one end and a mouthpiece duct taped on the other would produce better results. For people to say they were bad horns in an era where just about everything was bad except for the Kings says a lot. A recent YT commenter from Two-Seven said something to the effect that "the judges didn't like them". It wasn't just the judges. No one liked them- they were just mega-stinko instruments all around. The person behind the horn can do a lot. But it helps when you play on an instrument that you feel is responsive and one that's friendly and responsive rather then one where you feel you need to beat the thing into submission to make it play in tune, with a good sound, and feeling confident you can play every nuance they way it's intended to be played every time you go at it. I don't care what key it's in, cylindrical or conical bore, heavy wall or not. If I don't have to take into account how sturdy the horn is and I have to pick a marching horn, I'll take a System Blue Baritone and it's not from my century, let alone my decade. However, I did play on Olds B flat marching Trombones and Baritones in High School from 1975 to 1980- so maybe B-Flat is in my century . If I had to go in G... I'll take a circa 1981ish King 2-valve Baritone. It was the superior instrument in its era and plays better than my Kanstul with all the bells and whistles even after my repairman breathed all over it and worked some serious magic. Even cats like Ken Norman agree, it's what he's playin' for alumni gigs. Century or decade might be irrelevant- it's whether the instrument has the right balance of responsiveness, center of intonation, timbre, handiness, AND durability that would make me want to take it on the field or stage and go head to head as hard as I can against great competitors. I want something I can have confidence with when I get into some tough musical envelopes that I know will respond in a consistent fashion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalieguy Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/26/2017 at 2:09 PM, BigW said: You can fake it to a somewhat reasonable extent. Early 80's Westshore did a pretty good job for that era mimicing that jazz bone vibe. The real trick was not necessarily the diameter of the mouthpiece in that era, it was the throat diameter and depth of the cup. People are still using the Denis Wick 6BY out there in DCA like I used at the end of my competitive run for that very reason. And yeah, those tromboniums were sub-optimal to say the least- The real issue is the resistance a wound-up marching instrument has versus the actual trombone. The modern horns... they play exceptionally well, they're light well-balanced, especially the System Blues, but they're the Drum Corps equivalent of Japanese Zeros. Look at one the wrong way and you're getting out the dent magnet. Put the valve in the wrong way, and you're getting new parts or trying to re-flatten some. All's good when you can replace them every couple of seasons... W - IMO "sub-optimal" is being kind to the old Tromboniums.. I played one that MBI got from Madison during winter rehearsals and even with my Bach 2G Bass bone mouthpiece(given to me by Dan Groth before he left MN) it was like trying to force air through a cotton wad at the end of the lead pipe. Pitch centering (even with a smaller mouthpiece) was "fun"... We shipped them to the Jesse James Gang corps from Northfield(yeah, THAT Northfield) and they found a couple of folks that managed to get a decent amount of sound from them, although I can't imagine how. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Remembering the late Harry Heidelmark... who, as far as I can recall, made DCA history by being the first to play a trombonium in a DCA competition, when he was with the Matadors back in the day. Might actually have been the last one, too. LOL. I don't know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 11 hours ago, Fran Haring said: Remembering the late Harry Heidelmark... who, as far as I can recall, made DCA history by being the first to play a trombonium in a DCA competition, when he was with the Matadors back in the day. Might actually have been the last one, too. LOL. I don't know for sure. My guess is that Harry was one of those guys who could take a taped up garden hose with the funnel and play the heck out of it, Fran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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