Tobias Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 I believe there is a herd mentality amongst the judges with the head of the herd telling the calves which corps to dump as they start to solidify the top 3. (Check out gaps between third and fourth place corps) regardless of gaps the entire season. I believe there are way too many off season relationships between judges and staff of corps and the huge subjective component in scoring should be minimized to remove biased influenced on scoring. I believe Cadets should have won in 2007. The risk of voice in the program should have been rewarded vs BD with a traditional show. Why was innovation not important that year but when BD started lining the field with furniture, the judges started rewarding novelty. And then there was that 2010 show. :-(( 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) Cadets 2007 had a much better run for Semis, so they beat themselves by having a drop off for their final run, and BD had good final run. Sort of like Crown / BD 2015 Unpopular Opinion: I hate Cadets 2007 and can't watch it to this day. It’s cringe inducing to listen to, shame as it was a killer drill Edited May 16, 2017 by cowtown 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imcbdit Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, Tobias said: I believe there is a herd mentality amongst the judges with the head of the herd telling the calves which corps to dump as they start to solidify the top 3. (Check out gaps between third and fourth place corps) regardless of gaps the entire season. I believe there are way too many off season relationships between judges and staff of corps and the huge subjective component in scoring should be minimized to remove biased influenced on scoring. I believe Cadets should have won in 2007. The risk of voice in the program should have been rewarded vs BD with a traditional show. Why was innovation not important that year but when BD started lining the field with furniture, the judges started rewarding novelty. And then there was that 2010 show. :-(( Is that "herd mentality" simply numbers management by the judges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, Tobias said: I believe there is a herd mentality amongst the judges with the head of the herd telling the calves which corps to dump as they start to solidify the top 3. Adjudicating within any competition is a position which demands, nay commands integrity and honor. So, which judges among these are 'the calves' (please name them specifically) who cannot and do not have the integrity and honor enough to think for themselves but instead ‘follow the head of heard’ (and also name the head) when writing down their scores? Kelly, Gray, Waymire, Fugett, Orefice, Giese, Lentz, Rios, Greenwell, Prosperie, Fox, Wemhoff, Stone, Jones, Davis, Turner, Adamo, Thompson, McGarr, Carbone, Dunn, Ausdemore, Lowe, Carlson, Howell, Rothe, Bell, Mascaro, Miller, Chumley, Dillon, Markham, Howarth, Leitzke? Again, please name them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Stu said: Double Post Edited May 16, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, Tobias said: I believe there are way too many off season relationships between judges and staff of corps... Your accusation here is collusion; a form of dishonesty. So, again please name those in which you believe lack integrity and are in collusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadevilina Crown Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Tenoris4Jazz said: Yeah, and 1986 Vanguard would have won every other DCI championship held before then. Their timing was lousy. You can only compete in the year you have that show, and Academy was 11th last year because they were better than everyone below them. There have been plenty of shows through the years that had flaws, but they were one of the best 12 shows for THAT YEAR. The old story about the two hunters running from the angry bear applies here: you only have to outrun the other guy, not the bear. 1 hour ago, Stu said: Each season is different and scores/placements/performances are only relevant to a specific year. That in no way (except I suppose in your eyes) should take away from the Academy’s achievement in 2016 of making top 12 for the very first time! I suppose to you the 2006 World Series winner St. Louis Cardinals are likely not worthy of their title either. They only had an 83 – 79 regular season record, and four of the six teams in the NL Central division finished below .500 on the season; and in most other seasons the Cardinals would not have even made the Playoffs. But the truth of the matter is that the Academy ‘earned’ top 12 in 2016 and the Cardinals ‘earned’ the World Series Ring in 2006. To state any different is to actually disrespect those who were on the field earning those achievements. Points well taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 48 minutes ago, Tobias said: ... and the huge subjective component in scoring should be minimized to remove biased influenced on scoring. Any scoring system in which opinion constitutes 100% of the ranking score, even educated opinion, is 100% purely subjective. This is not like Baseball where the team who touches home plate the most times wins the most scores (ie objective scoring). And even though one attempts to claim that the DCI sheets are as objective as possible, the interpretation of the sheets is still 100% subjective. What you see as a heard mentality is not any sort of collusion at all, but merely that the DCI adjudicators are all pulled from the same pool of drum corps, winter guard, marching band, experience and mentality which in turn causes them to interpret the sheets in a similar manner. If you desire to eliminate that similar mentality in judging get someone like Wynton Marsalis to judge Brass instead of Dillon and get Carter Beauford to judge Percussion instead of Howarth. But even then the adjudicating would still be 100% subjective because it would still be their 'opinion'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, cowtown said: I hate Cadets 2007 and can't watch it to this day. It’s cringe inducing to listen to, shame as it was a killer drill I can watch the opening statement and the closing one....but nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostrauser Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stu said: Adjudicating within any competition is a position which demands, nay commands integrity and honor. So, which judges among these are 'the calves' (please name them specifically) who cannot and do not have the integrity and honor enough to think for themselves but instead ‘follow the head of heard’ (and also name the head) when writing down their scores? Kelly, Gray, Waymire, Fugett, Orefice, Giese, Lentz, Rios, Greenwell, Prosperie, Fox, Wemhoff, Stone, Jones, Davis, Turner, Adamo, Thompson, McGarr, Carbone, Dunn, Ausdemore, Lowe, Carlson, Howell, Rothe, Bell, Mascaro, Miller, Chumley, Dillon, Markham, Howarth, Leitzke? Again, please name them. I'll go a different route: these are who I consider the best judges in DCI at "thinking for themselves" and giving the MOST fair and accurate scoring and spreads. Here are my Top 5 (alphabetically). Joe Allison Glenn Fugett Albert Lo Paul McGarr Jeff Prosperie I will refrain from TORCHing the PINheads I think are on the SAUCE every time they judge. Edited May 16, 2017 by hostrauser Someone told me F is before L in the alphabet. I remain skeptical. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.