Looks like DCA class A corps might be growing

[BigW]

Thank you for spelling that out, John. I remember seeing a few fly-by-nights in the early 90's that appeared at a contest or two then crashed and burned due to weak management, instability as well as numbers.

 

I've been to shows where I cringed at some of the comments coming from some of the paying audience concerning some of those groups. I can be a hard case and critical but for God's sake, I literally cringed at what was said. I'm more understanding and I wouldn't have gone there. Some of those people I'm certain had the ear of contest management and let them know how they felt in no uncertain terms about those groups as well. My guess is in the one case, some of the people making those comments were part of the show management team.

 

When I was mixed up in Garden State in the mid-90's there were some very small groups within that circuit. Southern Illusion had 6 brass and 6 percussion, and about 8 guard, for instance and did credibly for that small a team, but I'd argue that Garden State was a circuit designed for very small developmental teams that didn't have much of an operating budget and in most cases were also extant to build character with inner city kids, and in that way they did very well-- but that's not really DCA's goal nor purview. Building character and helping kids is an indirect side effect of the DCA activity more than a main goal. People want to see effective teams performing watchable and accessible shows in DCA. Whether anyone likes it and I don't like it for the record- there's not a lot of sympathy or empathy for a group that's struggling/unwatchable.

 

Also, if you have an under 35 team... do Minis. Do Sound Sport. Do WGI Winds. Build the program from that and grow into DCA. Those paths exist, and to be blunt, if you can't get it out of those types of venue, stay there and do well at that. No point in trying to do something that sets up the overall program for eventual failure and having people in the audience shaking their heads and remembering the group in a bad light 25 years later.

[Jeff Ream]

On 4/7/2017 at 4:48 PM, camel lips said:

But that 35 Rule is working so well at expanding DCA. 

It is! It's pissing off less people year by year

[BigW]

Just realized something- the whole issue with corps and show hosts has been an on and off again issue for decades.

 

1979- Westshore was asked to disinvite itself from the Fresh Air Fanfare because they didn't want a "...corps of our caliber ruining their fine contest."

 

I remember those words clearly because I sat there as the letter was read to the corps at the first rehearsal I attended. So does Fawber. That letter spurred the corps more than the writers could have imagined- for years afterwards.

 

We're talking about a corps with 48 horns, 30 drums, 30 guard, and a DCA finalist for the two previous seasons who got crapped upon by a show host. Making it more interesting, we finished sixth that season. Can anyone imagine a show host telling CV (the 6th place finisher last season) or Bush (9th place last season) to stay home and not come to a contest now?

 

On the related '35' topic- maybe... use it to spur the corps to recruit more, build... and as a goal/chip on the shoulder rather than griping.

 

 

[MotoSurfBass]

On 4/10/2017 at 5:00 AM, BigW said:

Also, if you have an under 35 team... do Minis. Do Sound Sport. Do WGI Winds. Build the program from that and grow into DCA. Those paths exist, and to be blunt, if you can't get it out of those types of venue, stay there and do well at that. No point in trying to do something that sets up the overall program for eventual failure and having people in the audience shaking their heads and remembering the group in a bad light 25 years later.

I can assure you that Highland Regiment is working on putting together a productive summer in terms of both public performances and recruitment. They understood the difficulty of going from publicly announcing the formation of the corps to passing evaluation in a span of only 6 months, but persisted nonetheless and ultimately missed passing by the slimmest of margins. They actually had an option to have the evaluator return in April to see if the membership numbers were progressing, but ultimately decided to take a year to build the foundation and come out swinging in 2018. They will not be going radio silent this summer, and while I'm not yet aware of all the details, you will likely see them at some public events in the Somerset and Hunterdon County areas this summer and at band shows in the fall. 

[jimpjorps]

On 4/10/2017 at 5:00 AM, BigW said:

Also, if you have an under 35 team... do Minis. Do Sound Sport. Do WGI Winds. Build the program from that and grow into DCA. Those paths exist, and to be blunt, if you can't get it out of those types of venue, stay there and do well at that. No point in trying to do something that sets up the overall program for eventual failure and having people in the audience shaking their heads and remembering the group in a bad light 25 years later.

I think that's our plan, and as far as I know everyone's cool with it.  I don't think anyone's really angry at DCA's reasoning behind the limit, just a little disappointed that we had an over-optimistic goal (going from nothing to a competing corps in one off-season) and came somewhat short.

[BigW]

Talked to you folks at Highland Regiment at a ToB contest last fall and I figured you'd be more than okay and it was a question of when and not if. I know I'll eventually see you around at a DCA contest barring health issues on this end.

It's okay that when isn't this year. In this activity, plans don't happen overnight without ridiculous influxes of cash (Star of Indiana for instance). BD didn't make finals in their first DCI appearance (another thing forgotten over the years). Plans for a corps can take several years of work and serious effort at underpinning a strong business model underneath the organization and finding the personnel and growing them before you can finally pluck some fruit off of the tree.

My comments are more directed at some folks who have bemoaned the "35 minimum rule" over time that I get tired of hearing.

 

I thought about the whole minimum size rule some more. Work allows me to think about better things than work, thankfully. Otherwise, I'd go mad.

 

I figure if I had to put forth a small corps, what's the smallest I'd want it to be or think could be competitively be viable?

 

Brass:

6 Trumpets

4 Mellos

6 Baris

2 Contras

All of that predicated on the fact all of them can play out well, hard, and without any concerns or self-consciousness (like Sun Devils did). That's 18.

 

Percussion: (I'd like to see Jeff's comments on this, I'd take his advice on any alterations here)

3 Snares

2 Tenors

4 Bass Drums (assuming I have to be small- otherwise 5)

 

Front Ensemble:

2 mallets

2 Tympani/accessory

1 Electronic specialist

2 Old people who can play sideline stuff on brass, can help with accessories/electronics, and conduct. (Someone like me)

 

That's 16 people. I have 34 already. add in a bare minimum of 8-12 guard. That puts me to 42-45 people.

 

My thoughts are that anything less than that- you have some weaknesses and lack of balance that forces the design team and instructional team to really work to cover up those issues. I don't want to fight in DCA with one hand tied behind my back. Class A is very competitive. More than some people would like to think.

 

So, perhaps the minimum size of 35 is actually very generous. Food for thought.

 

 

[HBD]

51 minutes ago, BigW said:

Talked to you folks at Highland Regiment at a ToB contest last fall and I figured you'd be more than okay and it was a question of when and not if. I know I'll eventually see you around at a DCA contest barring health issues on this end.

It's okay that when isn't this year. In this activity, plans don't happen overnight without ridiculous influxes of cash (Star of Indiana for instance). BD didn't make finals in their first DCI appearance (another thing forgotten over the years). Plans for a corps can take several years of work and serious effort at underpinning a strong business model underneath the organization and finding the personnel and growing them before you can finally pluck some fruit off of the tree.

My comments are more directed at some folks who have bemoaned the "35 minimum rule" over time that I get tired of hearing.

 

I thought about the whole minimum size rule some more. Work allows me to think about better things than work, thankfully. Otherwise, I'd go mad.

 

I figure if I had to put forth a small corps, what's the smallest I'd want it to be or think could be competitively be viable?

 

Brass:

6 Trumpets

4 Mellos

6 Baris

2 Contras

All of that predicated on the fact all of them can play out well, hard, and without any concerns or self-consciousness (like Sun Devils did). That's 18.

 

Percussion: (I'd like to see Jeff's comments on this, I'd take his advice on any alterations here)

3 Snares

2 Tenors

4 Bass Drums (assuming I have to be small- otherwise 5)

 

Front Ensemble:

2 mallets

2 Tympani/accessory

1 Electronic specialist

2 Old people who can play sideline stuff on brass, can help with accessories/electronics, and conduct. (Someone like me)

 

That's 16 people. I have 34 already. add in a bare minimum of 8-12 guard. That puts me to 42-45 people.

 

My thoughts are that anything less than that- you have some weaknesses and lack of balance that forces the design team and instructional team to really work to cover up those issues. I don't want to fight in DCA with one hand tied behind my back. Class A is very competitive. More than some people would like to think.

 

So, perhaps the minimum size of 35 is actually very generous. Food for thought.

 

 

The original proposal years ago was for 45 minimum members but was changed to 35 after much discussion during the rules congress. It was a Bushwacker proposal but all the corps agreed it needed to be implemented. The summer before the rule a corps showed up to our homeshow with 9 people total. 

[JimF-LowBari]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:09 PM, Jeff Ream said:

It is! It's pissing off less people year by year

Remember swapping posts before the 35 rule went into effect with someone who ran a show that had 2 corps on the very small size.

Comments heard from crowd members afterwards showed that it would hurt attendance if this continued. (iow - didn't get moneys worth, would not come back, etc)

I was against the rule until I heard that part of the discussion.....

Edited April 12, 2017 by JimF-LowBari

[cabsbaritone]

Here is my issue with the 35 minimum rule.... And I am speaking as myself not for my corps... DCA wants to evaluate corps before April 1st. During that time in certain parts of the country (Especially the South) tons of people are involved in WGI.   That means that numbers are lacking in Guard and Drumline until...... May(being that WGI Percussion is so late this year)  So a Corps could have a hornline of 26 people and still fail their evaluation due to missing the number.  

Do I personally think someone should field a corps of less than 35 people ... Probably not...But I think someone needs to take a look at the evaluation rules and dates for for the future! 

 

Again Not  speaking for my corps... but I'm sure you can all read between the lines a little!! 

[Gary Matczak]

11 hours ago, cabsbaritone said:

Here is my issue with the 35 minimum rule.... And I am speaking as myself not for my corps... DCA wants to evaluate corps before April 1st. During that time in certain parts of the country (Especially the South) tons of people are involved in WGI.   That means that numbers are lacking in Guard and Drumline until...... May(being that WGI Percussion is so late this year)  So a Corps could have a hornline of 26 people and still fail their evaluation due to missing the number.

Do I personally think someone should field a corps of less than 35 people ... Probably not...But I think someone needs to take a look at the evaluation rules and dates for for the future!

 

Again Not  speaking for my corps... but I'm sure you can all read between the lines a little!!

Your point is well taken, however, corps that are looking to be evaluated should look at what their priorities are,....if they are running a winter guard and/or an indoor drumline, all while trying to run a start up corps, are probably taking on too much. If they make the decision to have their eveluation on a day that their indoor programs are on the road, is a choice they make, and should not be laid at the feet of DCA or DCI............