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Did The Bluecoats Set A Paradigm Shift in DCI?


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On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 11:39 PM, 31rabbit said:

let's say I'm open minded, and willing to be convinced in re BC being the harbinger of the New DCI Style.

I'd like the most persuasive of the NewCoats Zealots to explain the significant conceptual  differences between BC 14-16 and Cavaliers 01-03. If the best you can provide is new use of new tools, I don't call that a revobluetion. I have a personal theory, which I won't go into here, that Cadets 05 was the most influential modern show for the period of 08-15. I could come up with an extensive list of new ideas and new implementations which that show incorporated. I could probably rant concretely on tangible aspects of that show that were significant, probably for 5 minutes or so. Who can give me the empirical, evidence-based 5 minute state of the Blunion on what makes BC16 so special from what the Cavaliers were doing 10 years ago? (people make the Madison comparison, but I don't see it. Tilt to me was Cavies 02 revisited, so that's my intuitive point of comparison for modern BC)

I think maybe #TheWink represents a new active use of the jumbotron to engage with the audience as an individual corps member who isn't a guard character, but that's the kind of thing that would get incredibly annoying if ever more than one corps did it a year, really. but I'll at least grant that point. what else?

so one of you bluecoats truthers, give me the point by point on what this show has done, and see if you can win me over on what I'm missing (which I enjoyed very much musically, and in no way want to deny its individual show merits). 

 

 

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or in short, 'Prove it.'

two ongoing threads about the 'paradigm shift' set by the bluecoats, but nobody will tell me what it is.

the most substantive post only really contained one paragraph of explanation:

"Having said that, what the Bluecoats have done in the last 3 years has had an effect. We've already seen it with numerous corps. You just have to look closely.  They have certainly pioneered electronics and soundscapes.  But don't overlook what they did with costume, props, and staging (for which this past year's show goes even further than what I have seen from Crown or BD).  Also considere music arranging. They have taken minimalist music and exploited it's natural constructive style to help feature sections and show elements in ways I have not yet seen in the activity.  If the nature of innovation is to bring many elements into a whole in a completely new way in order to create a final product that is unusual and perhaps never before seen, then the Bluecoats show was innovative. It's the most modern thing I have seen in this activity. "

 

emphasis added. my counter is SCV post mid90s hung their hat on this, specifically 01.  as well as Crown 13 winning with this flavor.

 

i'm just saying, somebody give me the substantive, evidence-based proposal that BC has 'shifted' or 'will get credit for potentially shifting' a thematic or performance element. we've all got the discs, somebody tell me what I should watch and look for that is paradigm-shifting.  

 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, 31rabbit said:

or in short, 'Prove it.'

two ongoing threads about the 'paradigm shift' set by the bluecoats, but nobody will tell me what it is.

the most substantive post only really contained one paragraph of explanation:

"Having said that, what the Bluecoats have done in the last 3 years has had an effect. We've already seen it with numerous corps. You just have to look closely.  They have certainly pioneered electronics and soundscapes.  But don't overlook what they did with costume, props, and staging (for which this past year's show goes even further than what I have seen from Crown or BD).  Also considere music arranging. They have taken minimalist music and exploited it's natural constructive style to help feature sections and show elements in ways I have not yet seen in the activity.  If the nature of innovation is to bring many elements into a whole in a completely new way in order to create a final product that is unusual and perhaps never before seen, then the Bluecoats show was innovative. It's the most modern thing I have seen in this activity. "

emphasis added. my counter is SCV post mid90s hung their hat on this, specifically 01.  as well as Crown 13 winning with this flavor.

i'm just saying, somebody give me the substantive, evidence-based proposal that BC has 'shifted' or 'will get credit for potentially shifting' a thematic or performance element. we've all got the discs, somebody tell me what I should watch and look for that is paradigm-shifting.  

Perhaps you ought to make your argument for the Cadets to give Bluecoats fans something to model their post on.  You're kind of saying "prove it to me the way I can prove the Cadets '05".  Well... prove Cadets '05 !! 

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i'd love

44 minutes ago, corpsband said:

Perhaps you ought to make your argument for the Cadets to give Bluecoats fans something to model their post on.  You're kind of saying "prove it to me the way I can prove the Cadets '05".  Well... prove Cadets '05 !! 

I'd love to. come find me at a show, or perhaps after a show, perhaps after two drinks after a show, and I'll soapbox on the importance of Cadets 05 through at least one round. but this isn't the 05 Cadets Paradigm Shift thread.

current posts have not met the standard of presenting through a preponderance of evidence that BC 16 has met the requirement to be classified 'among the small percentage of shows considered the most important within the activity.' This Request For Evidence is a preliminary step towards a Notice of Intent to Deny the Classification of BC2016 as 'paradigm shifting.'

but I like the show a good deal, musically at least, so i'll watch it again and keep an eye out for any merits submitted as evidence of the show's pioneering or groundbreaking novel contributions.

 





 

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In a subjectively judged activity, one might just as easily point to the judging community rewarding the product vs what was actually presented to be judged as the proximate cause for any shifts.

Had Pacific Crest come out dressed like the Troopers with the same product as Bluecoats last year, I doubt few here would have discussed any shifts at all.  Most likely it would have been panned by fans and judges alike.

I know some don't like the "S" word here, but when things like this are attempted in the higher "competitive groupings" the more likely it will be rewarded by the judging community... given that subjectivity.  

In my opinion, it doesn't matter what you might try or what shift may have occurred.  If the judges don't "get it"  and reward it... it rarely matters what "IT" is.

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well I'm not the one stake the initial claim, so the burden of proof isn't really on me in this case. I'M not trying to make a bold statement here, I used my example to briefly touch on how a Bold Statement ought to be supported with specific arguments and revealing discussion. I hardly think it's out of line to request a certain amount of support from people making bold claims. 

How do you evince a paradigm shift? I suppose Innovation and Effect. Since we can't discuss Effect yet (that's 2-3 years out window), I'd like to see an evidence-based argument about innovation in BC16.

unless they prove to have significant lasting Effect, I'm not prepared to give the lidless pajama uniforms credit for being Innovative to the point of shifting the paradigm. but then again, uniforms tend to be something I'm usually the least concerned about, so my lack of credit there is a personal bias.

I think Innovation can be reduced to: what is the Big Idea the show introduced? maybe (likely) it isn't the First Instance of the idea, but they presented the idea and elevated it to becoming a core idea that other corps will draw upon at a significantly greater rate thanks to its introduction in this show.

I'd say the Cadet 05 Big Idea (see, I'll present it anyways) was showing the value of storytelling. were the Cadets the first corps to do so? no. but they bought into an original story to a with greater investment and at a higher level than had been done previously. lots of corps have dabbled into acting out scenes from musicals, but cadets 05 sought to tell an original story, from start to finish, and never have their show stray from the narrative element. yeah it cribbed heavily from Alice in Wonderland conceptually (and then there was 06). but Cadets in 05 decided to go all-in on narrative, any 3-4 years later it was popping up everywhere and at the highest level. last year BD, Cadets, Crown, and Academy were all entirely narrative-structures shows, with BK, Cavaliers, and Stars also being at least strongly tied to an arc. 
2015? BD, Cavaliers, and Boston directly relied on narrative to advance their show, Crown obliquely.  

whereas in 04, hardly there, even in shows that would have thrived on a narrative. ergo my theory is that the significant value of narrative storytelling as the spine of the show rather than as the detail-work is an innovation which, if not originated by the Cadets in 05, was evolved by them to such a degree (they carried the storytelling from pre-salute through leaving the field, and for several years used visual and music to support the show theme, rather than the other way around) that it became a staple idea among elite corps. this idea was integrated by 08 Phantom, and i'd argue that it was the narrative strength of Spartacus is what gave that show its status as a contending 'all-timer' and certainly a staying power that is rarely seen among other modern shows.    you don't have 08 PR without 05-07 Cadets) (though PR began dabbling in narrative in 06, they went all-in with 'Spartacus'), which I think owes much of its structure to 05 Cadets. and the wild reactions to 08 PR led to a string of corps increasing their theatrical presence.

see, I did it anyways even though I wasn't going to. it's a pet thesis I have. 

so what is the Novel  Innovation/technique/philosophy of 16 BC that is going to become a significant device going forward?   

 

now you're welcome to disagree with that pet thesis all you want. and it's a discussion I always enjoy.

but its relevance to THIS thread is that there is no thesis statement to what is so influential about BC 2016, let alone any evidence.

 

 



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 31rabbit
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 I find myself agreeing with the rabbit here.

 I can see Bluecoats getting some innovative credit ( for loss of another apt description)  its " echo effect " musical sounds.. either man made or artificially produced by the sideline engineer. That was fresh and clever. Going with the " Flo from the Progressive  Insurance Co. TV ads look" with the all whites ( and hatless ) although done before costume wise, had not been done before in a very long time, but that's no game changer, imo.  Minimalist music has been played lots of times, so that's not new. Slidding up and down stage props.. ditto... been done before. Drummers sitting or playing  high up on props was done by BD before. The " wink ".. ok, that might be new, but com'on.. that's not going to go into the Drum Corps innovation idea Hall of Fame.

 The 2016 Bluecoats show was a deserving Champion, and it was a well coordinated show among all elements of each section of the Corps. It was fun. It was popular. But the Bluecoats BOD member's post above that  the 2016 Bluecoats show was a game changer in the activity, like the Rabbit here,  I'm not quite seeing at the moment either.

Edited by BRASSO
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