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Did The Bluecoats Set A Paradigm Shift in DCI?


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2 hours ago, corpsband said:

You're welcome :-) 

Oh -- I see Jwillis is attempting to steal my thunder :-)   I'm pretty sure it was in a reply to him but I'll have to wrestle with the search engine to find that thread.  As I recall he said he was thinking the same thing.  No mater who said it first -- I agree that it pretty much nails it. 

fwiw here's the original thread.  

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php?/topic/164669-denton-tx-duelings/&do=findComment&comment=3555149

As to whether it's some sort of paradigm shift / bellwether design..  I don't think so.  Once you get past the electronics, it truly is the Madison Scouts.  A musical book that's easy to relate to with a focus on entertainment.  They've just updated with a modern visual book.   The formula worked for Madison for a long time and it works for Bloo as well. In fact it made judges overlook quite a bit of visual dirt just like it did for Madison!

My biggest "complaint" if you will is that it crosses the line in electronics.  Their utilization of electronics was so seamless that it's completely impossible to tell what's live and what's electronic.  That's a "bad" thing to me.  I think it's important that the electronic voices and/or amplified voices always be clearly distinguishable from the acoustic voices.  That's certainly NOT the case with Bloo 2016.

Anyway I thought the Bluecoats deserved the win last season.  The program had the elusive "it" factor (just like PR '08)  and was entertaining as hell.  Unfortunately that's a really challenging thing to reproduce.  

 

I agree completely they're RIGHT on that line of too much.  I personally didn't think they crossed it but I was RIGHT up close and personal when I saw them in Denton less than 10 rows from the sideline with absolutely no track so I was able to hear enough "real" stuff that it didn't bother me that much.  

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3 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

Bluecoats 2016 was absolutely a Bellwether show. 

 Maybe.. maybe not, imo .. We won't really know for several years. maybe longer.

 Will all Corps be hatless in 10 years ? I don't believe so. But if they are, then the 80's,90.s Empire Statesmen in DCA and the 2016 DCI Bluecoats can be credited as the " pioneers " in the Hatless Movement in Drum Corps.

 BD dd the elevated drummers thing on props before the Bluecoats did. Bluecoats were not the 1st to use electronics. They just used it in new ways the last 3 seasons. The Bluecoats have ushered in an era where adults on the sidelines create new synthetic sounds that play into the scores and placements. its certainly true that marching performers are increasingly less important to the creation of new musical sounds than are the guys and gals with degrees in Engineering, than performers pursuing degrees in Music or Dance..That's a judgement call, if this is " good " or " bad " long term for the activity. But it is " change ", and the Bluecoats are out front in the use of synthetic sounds created on the field of competition by the non musical, to increase the musical scores. I like the synthetic sounds created, but I am under no illusion that much of the biggest " effects " are performer created. They all used to be... but no more. So things do change, and the adult created show designers.. and the adult sound engineers.... are increasingly far more important in the scores and placements now than ever before. I think that's pretty much an overall undeniable assessment too, imo

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56 minutes ago, Ghost said:

BRASSO mentioned the 85 Boston Crusaders using electronics even though they were given a penalty at each show.  For those who haven't seen the video here you go.  One of the corps lean years back then.

 

Well, funny thing about that...

I just watched the video, and thought it was pretty cool actually, but someone in the comments brought up a really good point.  That "someone" actually had the same profile picture as Tekk, go figure.  Anyways, he/she said it was funny that everyone thought that it was cool when Boston used electronics in '85.  Is the reasoning behind everyones frustration with electronics the fact that DCI specifically refered to "amplification" when they announced the change?  Would it had been better if they had announced "electronics" instead?  IMO electronics is a nice addition to the activity as a whole and brings in new talent and fans, although Im not so sure amplification is.  Thoughts?

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I'm only talking secondhand from people who saw 2015 live (a mistake I will forever regret) but the soundscapes and sonorities they create in this part of the show in 2015 with the looping, arranging style, etc. is still my favorite thing they've done. I will never ever forget seeing that in the theater for the first time because it sounded unlike anything that I had ever heard come from a football field before. 

 

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3 hours ago, BoaDci said:

it was funny that everyone thought that it was cool when Boston used electronics in '85.  Is the reasoning behind everyones frustration with electronics the fact that DCI specifically refered to "amplification" when they announced the change?  Would it had been better if they had announced "electronics" instead?  IMO electronics is a nice addition to the activity as a whole and brings in new talent and fans, although Im not so sure amplification is.  Thoughts?

 When the Boston Crusaders introduced the use of electronics for the 1st time in DCI Drum Corps in 1985, there was really not much of a controversy with it at the time for the simple reason that from 1980-1985 the Boston Crusaders were a 20-25th placing Corps. No other Corps at the time seemed interested in utilizing electronics, especially the top 12, top 7 Corps at the time. So there was no issue. It reminds me of the first use of rock guitars in DCI competition a few years back. Teal Sound broke the mold with this cutting edge musical instrumentation in DCI competition. But once again, the Corps that first introduced this string musical instrument into DCI competition was likewise a 20th placing DCI Corps at the time. Similar to Boston in 1985, it appeared that no other Corps would soon follow Teal Sound to use rock guitars in DCI Competition. You can bet your life however, if 2 or 3 top tier DCI Corps came out this summer with rock guitarists playing rock guitars in the timed field competition, we'd have lots of heated discussions on its appropriateness or not for Drum Corps. Moving forward, rock guitars undoubtably will become a featured musical instrument staple in DCI Drum Corps at some point in the future. And when the inevitable heated discussions on its usage takes place, we can harken back to the 2010-2011 time frame when a now gone DCI Drum Corps was way ahead of its time ( as BAC was in 1985 ) and utilized something in its show that never even registered much in the way of any controversy at all.

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let's say I'm open minded, and willing to be convinced in re BC being the harbinger of the New DCI Style.

I'd like the most persuasive of the NewCoats Zealots to explain the significant conceptual  differences between BC 14-16 and Cavaliers 01-03. If the best you can provide is new use of new tools, I don't call that a revobluetion. I have a personal theory, which I won't go into here, that Cadets 05 was the most influential modern show for the period of 08-15. I could come up with an extensive list of new ideas and new implementations which that show incorporated. I could probably rant concretely on tangible aspects of that show that were significant, probably for 5 minutes or so. Who can give me the empirical, evidence-based 5 minute state of the Blunion on what makes BC16 so special from what the Cavaliers were doing 10 years ago? (people make the Madison comparison, but I don't see it. Tilt to me was Cavies 02 revisited, so that's my intuitive point of comparison for modern BC)

I think maybe #TheWink represents a new active use of the jumbotron to engage with the audience as an individual corps member who isn't a guard character, but that's the kind of thing that would get incredibly annoying if ever more than one corps did it a year, really. but I'll at least grant that point. what else?

so one of you bluecoats truthers, give me the point by point on what this show has done, and see if you can win me over on what I'm missing (which I enjoyed very much musically, and in no way want to deny its individual show merits). 

 

 

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 its also a fallacy to believe that all the new toys, new ideas. etc came from the top tier Corps. Some did. But lots of new, creative innovations, or 1st  uses of new instrumentation came not from the top tier Corps at all, but actually first were seen and heard from the much lower placing Corps. Some Corps that never even made Finals as a matter of fact. I mentioned BAC '85, Teal Sound, 2010-2011.  Last season the Cadets utilized a violin soloist. They weren't the first. The Oregon Crusaders ( a non DCI Finalist ) introduced the violin first into DCI field competition 2 seasons ago. Undoubtably, the Cadets of 2016 liked the idea, and went with a violin soloist themselves last season. I could list lots of other creative innovations that were not found first in DCI by the top Corps, but in fact were first introduced into DCI by the much lower placing Corps.

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23 hours ago, Ghost said:

Man BRASSO, you're up late tonight.  Run out of your sleeping aide?

 I don't need any sleeping aide, Ghost. When I sense the need to fall asleep, I simply turn on the TV.

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