Why does Jersey Surf do so bad?

[BRASSO]

 Just when we thought that the " G7 " thingy would not surface on any thread again, multiple posters have brought up the " G7 " scheme to select a small part of it, in order to attempt to make their case here regarding a thread revolving around " Jersey Surf ".  Good Lord, it appears that the G7 thingy that went down to a stinging defeat in DCI in 2010... 7 years ago.... is still raising its ugly head almost every week here on some thread or other. I've suggested multiple times now we let this disgraced scheme  silently sleep with the fishes,, but like a bad case of acne, it just can't seem to go away for some people... lol!... oh well, it is what it is with the " G7' thingy, I guess. Some can't just let it go.

Edited March 23, 2017 by BRASSO

[corpsband]

5 minutes ago, Stu said:

Read, yes.  Comprehend.............. welll....... (it's a joke Brasso, a joke)

undeniable and unassailable!  

[Stu]

40 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 The fact is that the primary mission of the Blue Devils A Corps, is not the primary mission of the Blue Devils B Corps, and neither the Blue Devils A or B Corps missions are the same primary mission as that for the Blue Devils C Corps.

Agreed.  But the mission of Surf reflects the missions of BD B and C, not BD A.  So if we use BD A, B, and C as examples, and you brought them into the argument, what division best serves the mission of Surf? Open (lke BD B,C), or World (like BD A)?

[MikeN]

Just depends, at the end of the day, on your definition of World Class. I suspect, Stu, you're thinking more of the WGI model, while DCI is much more about organizational and tour commitments.

Even that, though, is a relatively recent development in DCI. As envisioned, there was supposed to be a review process every few years where corps were shuffled up or down based on whether or not they were putting out a "World Class" product, deserving of World Class fees charged to show promoters.

And to be fair, it's not like Surf is bumbling around like Keystone Cops out there. Even those corps in the 20-25 range are putting out leaps and bounds better product than was seen even 5 years ago. Are they Crown and Bloo? Of course not, but they're still putting on very good drum corps shows.

Finally, if you limit it to Finalists and possible Finalists, there will be like 13 corps in WC. You can't build much of a tour from that.

Mike

[ouooga]

46 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Just when we thought that the " G7 " thingy would not surface on any thread again, multiple posters have brought up the " G7 " scheme to select a small part of it, in order to attempt to make their case here regarding a thread revolving around " Jersey Surf ".  Good Lord, it appears that the G7 thingy that went down to a stinging defeat in DCI in 2010... 7 years ago.... is still raising its ugly head almost every week here on some thread or other. I've suggested multiple times now we let this disgraced scheme  silently sleep with the fishes,, but like a bad case of acne, it just can't seem to go away for some people... lol!... oh well, it is what it is with the " G7' thingy, I guess. Some can't just let it go.

To be fair, people are still mad about electronics and Bb instruments too.

[Stu]

34 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Just depends, at the end of the day, on your definition of World Class. I suspect, Stu, you're thinking more of the WGI model, while DCI is much more about organizational and tour commitments.

In DCI, at least now, it appears that if a corps is financially sound enough to tour the United States without going into the red, and can do some semblance of honking, tapping, and spinning, irrespective of competitive quality, (not talking about Surf here but just the criteria of being classified as DCI WC) that corps can be considered 'World Class' by DCI. While I agree it is the call of DCI to make, to me that does a disservice to the name 'World Class' as well as a disservice to the staff and performers of the corps who are attempting to actually be the best in the world.  I love the idea of DCI SoundSport and the idea of DCI Open Class for corps that do not desire to be the best in the world at their craft; but 'World Class' evokes the idea of the units involved engaging in competing for the best of the best in the world title.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Stu

[cixelsyd]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

Again, I do love Surf so please do not think I am ragging on them.  They are not the Glassmen who put making WC top twelve over finical responsibility then went under; and for that I commend Bob Jacobs.  But while any youth of age can audition with Surf, one of the main philosophies of Mr. Jacobs is to ‘target’ local high school aged youth; not for competitive reasons but for local altruistic reasons.  Surf even accommodates their move-in rehearsal schedule around the high school academic year.  That, in the right context, is also extremely commendable.  However, most youth who perform in DCI either have, or develop, the desire to better themselves as performers via competing head-to-head with the best of the best. For that reason it is no wonder many  will perform with Surf for one year then audition for a WC corps which ‘targets’ the best of the best university aged youth from around the globe.  The Surf philosophy of targeting does make for a great Open Class corps situation; but a World Class corps it does not make.

 

To start with, has it been established that Jersey Surf "targets" local high school aged youth?  Not seeing evidence of that.  Here is what I do see, from their website under "membership":
 

Quote

Your audition results will be based on several factors:

Performance- Your abilities on your instrument or equipment and your marching ability are significant factors in your achievement of your goal of membership on our team. Perhaps even more important, however, is your development and progress over a period of time. Our instructional team wants you to be motivated to work hard to fulfill your potential and master your craft.

Ability to Honor Financial Commitments- We need to agree on an action plan which will enable you to honor your commitment and pay your fees in full by the designated deadlines.

Attendance- We expect you to attend all of our rehearsals. We do realize there are occasionally unavoidable conflicts. If you know you have a conflict with one of our rehearsal or audition weekends, it is your responsibility to tell your caption head about it as soon as you know. After many years and thousands of members, we know what to expect and have a lot of experience solving challenges before they become major issues.

Attitude- A positive approach to life and to our journey together as a drum corps is very important to everyone here at the Jersey Surf. When everyone is willing to work as a team, we can achieve tremendous things. Our philosophy is to work smart with a solid game plan to be the best we can be, while having and a great time together along the way, sharing our love of what we do with each-other and with the world. We want to bring together people of character who will work hard to share these attributes and who understand and share this philosophy.

I do not see "local high school aged" anywhere in there.

Next, what does "target" mean, anyway?  If a corps is full of members from the same state where they are based, is that because the corps "targeted" area kids, or because area kids targeted the nearest corps?

Bottom line - it sounds like you are saying that offering the world class experience to a targeted membership pool automatically makes it a non-world-class experience.  That disqualifies every corps that so much as claims a hometown or base of operations.
 

[Stu]

1 minute ago, ouooga said:

To be fair, people are still mad about electronics and Bb instruments too.

Ahhh.... but electronics and Bb instruments were not proposed as selfish self-serving ideas, but were proposed to possibly make 'all corps' more updated to modern audience tastes.

[Stu]

10 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

To start with, has it been established that Jersey Surf "targets" local high school aged youth?  Not seeing evidence of that.  Here is what I do see, from their website under "membership":
 

I do not see "local high school aged" anywhere in there.

Next, what does "target" mean, anyway?  If a corps is full of members from the same state where they are based, is that because the corps "targeted" area kids, or because area kids targeted the nearest corps?

Bottom line - it sounds like you are saying that offering the world class experience to a targeted membership pool automatically makes it a non-world-class experience.  That disqualifies every corps that so much as claims a hometown or base of operations.
 

While it might not appear in writing on a website, unless you are seeking out and recruiting the best youth and best staff from around the globe (and if those who are local are some of the best in the world that is fine), to me, you are not engaging in becoming a 'World Class' organization.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Stu

[cage]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

To start with, has it been established that Jersey Surf "targets" local high school aged youth?  Not seeing evidence of that.  Here is what I do see, from their website under "membership":
 

I do not see "local high school aged" anywhere in there.

At least a third of the corps comes from Virginia

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

Next, what does "target" mean, anyway?  If a corps is full of members from the same state where they are based, is that because the corps "targeted" area kids, or because area kids targeted the nearest corps?

There aren't, or weren't many kids from Jersey a couple years ago.

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: