Why does Jersey Surf do so bad?

[corpsband]

 

37 minutes ago, trudy said:

"Target high schoolers" and "Market to high schoolers" isn't really the best way to word it.  They don't specifically reach out to those members, however they specifically cater to the high school schedules in the Northeast (New Jersey doesn't get out until mid June).

I said "where do they market themselves" and clearly it's mostly at high school band competitions.  Who's there?  High school band kids.   I think they do set up a booth at the Collegiate MB Exhib as well.  

 

37 minutes ago, trudy said:

Their education "philosophy" (for lack of a better word) is also specifically catered towards those who are newer to the activity.  There's a very big difference in teaching styles if you're on the brass staff at a Crown or Blue Devils and have your pick of the best brass players versus being on the brass staff at a Surf or Mandarins and you have to work on building them up to a high level.  I would argue that to some degree, instructional staff work "harder" (again, for lack of a better word) at the lower placing corps because they get members of all skill levels, versus instructional staff at a top 5 corps, who get their pick of the best.

Well let's see -- who is new to the activity?  (mostly HS band kids :-).    Work harder?  Probably not the best way to put it.  I think instructional staff is frequently overlooked here,  Everyone likes to say "it's all about design".  Even at the highest level (eg. Crown or BD)  teaching is hugely important.  I will agree with you that more experienced kids are walking in the door at those corps and so I do get what you're trying to say.   

Surf in not an in easy area to recruit either.  There's a whole lot of competition for members from both YEA and all those DCA corps near by.  

37 minutes ago, trudy said:

Being a former member of the administration at Surf, I can say for a fact that it is NOT a specific administrative decision to not place well.  As I said before though, it is a specific administrative decision to provide the experience of marching a World Class corps to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to make the monetary or time commitment to a top level corps.  This, along with the education aspect lead to attracting younger members, and those with less experience.  Because of catering to northeast high school schedules, Surf doesn't move in until mid June, a month after most top corps.

Younger, less experienced talent + Moving in a month later = Lower placement.  Though as I said in my original post, right now for Jersey Surf, the aspects mentioned above are more of a priority than winning a DCI Championship.  Not saying that will never change, but right now, that's the priority and they are happy with that decision.

And I have no objection to corps who are just looking to provide "the experience".  I just think you can do that and still improve your standing year-to-year. I firmly believe if you're not moving forward, you're moving backward.

The late move-in date is a really big challenge to overcome. What more can be done in the off-season to bring members into ST better prepared?  

37 minutes ago, trudy said:

To the point of whether the above philosophy should apply to Worlds Class or Open Class, there are definite advantages to being a World Class corps, especially monetary.  I personally see no disadvantage to being a World Class corps.  If you claim corps like Surf bring down the image of DCI's World Class, that it should be limited to the top marching ensembles in the world, I will point out that the Jersey Surf is still one of the top 30 marching ensembles in the World.  If you consider all of the marching units in the world, is still a pretty big feat.

Yeah that's not me saying that.  

As for Surf being a top 30 marching ensemble in the world, perhaps I'll just let that one quietly pass, That said -- it's no mean feat fielding a World Class touring drum corps every year and my hat is off to Surf for accomplishing it.   

[BRASSO]

12 minutes ago, corpsband said:

 

.    teaching is hugely important.  I will agree with you that more experienced kids are walking in the door at those corps    

 I firmly believe if you're not moving forward, you're moving backward.

   

 Stop the presses... our DCP cook and I agree on something... lol!

Edited March 24, 2017 by BRASSO

[soccerguy315]

you realize if you cut the bottom out of world class then eventually you are only left with 1 corps, right?

20th is undeserving... then 16th... then 13th... then 11th... then 8th... 

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, soccerguy315 said:

you realize if you cut the bottom out of world class then eventually you are only left with 1 corps, right?

20th is undeserving... then 16th... then 13th... then 11th... then 8th... 

Where would you cut the number off that defines 'World Class'? Or would you be fine with an 89th place corps scoring a 14.3 being designated as a 'World Class' competitive organization?

[BRASSO]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:40 AM, lossvegas said:

Jersey Surf's past show was really quite impressive compared to years past.  Do you think their silly show reputation is dragging them down politically

  No.

[BRASSO]

29 minutes ago, soccerguy315 said:

if you cut the bottom out of world class then eventually you are only left with 1 corps

 

 The Blue Devils.

[Jeff Ream]

On 3/22/2017 at 2:57 PM, aLittleBird said:

If I had to pick the most obvious example-- Surf doesn't start their spring training until several weeks after most other corps because they're primarily geared towards high school students. They intentionally scoop up younger members, start later than everyone else, and have a slightly more relaxed schedule to allow for their kids to experience the places that they go etc etc... It's not designed to be a competitive program, at least not in the sense that the top corps are. It's just a way for high schoolers to get to say they were in DCI World Class, and they do what they do well considering these factors.

agreed. i would love to see them retain more of the kids, and push the staff to design for their growing talents.

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, PhoenixDCI said:

Surf does not "target" high schoolers.  It actually does almost no marketing at all that I know of. The schedule IS conducive to those who cannot move in in middle May, and it is the only other world class corps to rehearse in the northeast (other than the Cadets). There is a very wide mix of ages, probably equal high school and college. If you think that Surf's schedule targets high schoolers, then take a look at Blue Stars website - which specifically states that they can excuse high school kids from spring training and have licensed high school teachers on staff who can administer tests to high school kids. http://www.bluestars.org/membership/schedule.php. 

Surf wants to score higher - they WANT to make semis. Believe me, the MMs see the scores and care. Alot. 

I see Surf set up with a recruiting table at many HS band events in NJ and PA

[cixelsyd]

6 hours ago, Stu said:

Where would you cut the number off that defines 'World Class'? Or would you be fine with an 89th place corps scoring a 14.3 being designated as a 'World Class' competitive organization?

I would be fine with 89 world class corps.  For what possible reason should I not want that?

Now, if we had 89 corps as good as the current top 3, the existing scoring system might still compel judges to use point spreads that push 89th place down to a 14.3.  We would all get used to the fact that a 14.3 would be worth more than it was in 2016.  There have been other times when quality improved, yet scores still remained below 100.

[cixelsyd]

15 hours ago, corpsband said:

Where does Surf market itself? (mostly HS MB shows?) 

I believe they spend more time marketing themselves at DCI events.  And the Internet is another platform for marketing.  They have their own website, and have also been active on Facebook.  (This is not a comprehensive list... )