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1 minute ago, ouooga said:

 

To be completely transparent, the 09 show was not actually a DCI show. But that's nitpicky and doesn't detract from the value of your statement at all. I'm sure if we try hard enough, we can come up with plausible dangers about every show site! (possible topic idea for a new thread?)

 Nevada,, per capita... is the one of the fastest growing states in the country, if not the fastest growing state. Presumably, the migration to this state is not all older retirees. We can assume some are young families with children. We can assume the children all don't stay huddled up ( like DCI Corps ) for months on end indoors. We can assume thousands of children play outside in these weather conditions. Some play intense sports in this weather. We do know that the biggest threat of heat related issues is not with children, but instead with the elderly. We know that Corps have had practices and shows in outdoor venues that are intensely humid, with loss of fluids due to the all important heat index a real threat, unless the replenishment of fluids through the consumption of water take place frequently and in copious amounts.  Young Olympians.. same age as Drum Corps MM's in many cases.. for over a hundred years have competed in international venues where the heat and humidity was worse than anything found in Vegas. Some run long marathons in the intense heat.. other grueling sports as well. So long as people in Corps take the necessary precautions, the threat to the safety and health of marchers practicing and competing in Las Vegas is way overblown, imo.

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On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 9:04 PM, Ghost said:

 Corps start during ST to get used to a daily routine, so I don't see a corps switching to outdoor rehearsals overnight, then sleeping late morning into the early evening just to avoid one weeks worth of high temperatures.   

I used to teach for a high school band in Tempe, AZ. Our band camps and rehearsals were routinely in 100+ degree whether. Most high school band and football programs in the southwest routinely spend all day outside practicing in such temperatures. So, yeah, I feel like the issue is being overblown here. That said, it still sucks and I can see how those not accustomed to it would be concerned.

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10 hours ago, Ghost said:

The St. G area usually runs about 7-10 degrees cooler than Vegas and currently there are no large enough indoor locations.

Yup! That 10 degrees cooler was what I was counting on to make it a viable place to rehearse. 

Heck, SCV could rehearse in Santa Clara, UT and then drive down for the show!

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On 4/3/2017 at 6:17 AM, Stu said:

Now we are getting somewhere.  If all of these venues actually have 'football field sized floor space for full rehearsals with high vantage points for staff', and a few smaller indoor areas to split into sectionals, then Vegas could accommodate fourteen or so corps.  Provided that the venues are not cost prohibitive for Gold, Battalion, or any WC corps other than BD in which Wolgang proposed.  But something tells me that either many of these venues would likely not work, or they would cost too much for many corps to lease.

As for seeking estimated costs from Wolfgang concerning leasing a Pro Stadium and the rehearsal venues, along with the potential revenue from ticket sales, all are realistic questions because supposedly we are not discussing a 'fantasy' but a possible 'real' event.  You even said it yourself that the previous time corps were near Vegas the attendance was horrid,  And if this time around rehearsal sites would be at indoor venues, and the performance site would be a Pro Football Indoor Stadium, Wolfgang needs to address those expenditure/revenue concerns for this to get out of 'fantasy land' and into the realm of being a serious proposal.  Anyone can propose things within a 'fantasy'; let's see if Wolfgang can propose things within a 'reality'.  (and to ward off a fall-back counter, I request that we please stay away from the "Perception is Reality" argument)

Stu,

Why do I get the feeling that every time an answer is provided to you, you keep changing the goal posts?

Now you've added "Football field sized floor space AND high vantage points for staff" to your list. My lists says they're indoor soccer fields and other large spaces. Corps can rehearse on space of different sizes.  All I'm doing is saying "it's not impossible nor unreasonable". Maybe you have never lived in Las Vegas and don't realize the potential for a show there?

We are discussing a fantasy because "we" aren't going to be negotiating on behalf of DCI or our corps. I mean, maybe you'll be negotiating for Boston, but I won't be negotiating,

...and you forgot that I said the show wasn't successful because of the lack of advertising. In other words, people didn't know there was a show.

You could just tell us you don't like Las Vegas, or you don't like it for a show and nobody is going to convince you otherwise. That way I'll know if you wanted to talk about the topic, or just be contrary.

I'm sorry, but I feel like it's the latter. The saving grace is that, yes, it's hot. You are right in being concerned.  But then again, it's also hot in Texas, Arizona, and the rest of the South in the summer.

Edited by jjeffeory
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1 hour ago, jjeffeory said:

Stu,

Why do I get the feeling that every time an answer is provided to you, you keep changing the goal posts?

Now you've added "Football field sized floor space AND high vantage points for staff" to your list. My lists says they're indoor soccer fields and other large spaces. Corps can rehearse on space of different sizes.  All I'm doing is saying "it's not impossible nor unreasonable". Maybe you have never lived in Las Vegas and don't realize the potential for a show there?

We are discussing a fantasy because "we" aren't going to be negotiating on behalf of DCI or our corps. I mean, maybe you'll be negotiating for Boston, but I won't be negotiating,

...and you forgot that I said the show wasn't successful because of the lack of advertising. In other words, people didn't know there was a show.

You could just tell us you don't like Las Vegas, or you don't like it for a show and nobody is going to convince you otherwise. That way I'll know if you wanted to talk about the topic, or just be contrary.

I'm sorry, but I feel like it's the latter. The saving grace is that, yes, it's hot.  But then again, so is Texas, Arizona, and the rest of the South in the summer.

I have helped find housing sites for many corps, and the higher placing the corps the more demands they have for rehearsal facilities.  Throughout the first half of this thread Ouooga kept pounding out that there are indoor facilities in the Vegas area that could handle dozens of corps with space enough for ‘full’ rehearsals.  The term ‘full’ to a Corps Director means that their full show can be rehearsed in its entirety indoors, which in turn means that the floor space is required to be football field sized.  So, if you read my question #3 that I posed to Wolfgang, since this was his thread and his idea, it was for Wolfgang to provide the names of the indoor facilities that can handle ‘full’ indoor rehearsal space.  All I did was to make sure everyone knows what ‘full’ means to a Corps Director when I injected football field sized floor.  Imagine the Cavaliers, BD, etc... booking an indoor facility, promised that it can accommodate a 'full' rehearsal, and then find out when they arrive that the floor space is only half the size needed for a 'full' rehearsal!!

By the way, fantasy would be if we were discussing the characters in the movie Avatar.  What we are discussing is the real possibility that youth would be engaging in extreme physical activity in extreme heat indexes, the cost to lease indoor facilities to get them out of that dangerous heat, the cost to lease a Pro Football Stadium, and the potential revenue that would be generated from a show at that stadium with the corps listed by Wolfgang.  That is not fantasy.

Also, I love Vegas; the nightlife; the shows on the Strip; etc... But I would never subject youth who are required to engage in physical exertion at the level of a WC corps to the excruciating daytime heat in Vegas in the middle of July or August. And for that, I am not sorry.

Edited by Stu
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After the original post pointing out the possible benefits of a show in what should be a new state-of-the-art facility in one of the fastest growing markets in the country, the discussion has degenerated into arguments about weather.  Stu wants his questions answered… I will answer the questions, though I think they are based on flawed reasoning.

#1) What do you realistically think will be the lease-rate charged to DCI to have the show located at the new Raiders Pro Stadium? 

-If the people that run the stadium want dates so it’s not sitting idle in July, they can negotiate a rate with DCI the same way Indy, San Antonio, Buffalo, Meadowlands, (hopefully) Atlanta, and others do that works for both parties.

#2) Considering the ten corps you listed on the marque, how much net, not gross, but net profit do you think DCI will garner from ticket sales at a show being held at that Pro stadium? 

-You could ask the same question about any other large venue DCI uses.  I would bet they have a chance to make more money than in Indy (no, not Finals.. I'm referring to the 5 or 6 corps June preview show at LOS that draws nowhere near as many spectators).

#3) Someone in this thread stated that there are indoor facilities in the Vegas area large enough to handle 'full' rehearsals; can you please name the indoor facilities that are in the Vegas area which can provide indoor floor space large enough for those full rehearsals? 

-Since I never mentioned indoor rehearsal space, it is not a question I need to answer.  I would be fine with the corps rehearsing outdoors, just the same way one or more do every year while passing through Vegas, and as numerous bands do.  If the show ever does materialize and ouooga is able to help secure indoor rehearsal space, that’s a bonus but imho not a necessity.  Somebody provided a pretty good list of facilities on another reply.

#4) Corps have to pay hefty costs for rehearsal/housing sites like schools, and they are very hard to book.  While BD can pretty much afford any rehearsal site they want, Gold and Battalion tour on peanuts and need way lower-cost facilities.  Understanding that each corps needs a football field sized area with upper vantage points for staff, and that neither Gold nor Battalion can afford the same high-rate facilities as BD, what are the locations most likely to be rehearsal sites for each corps?  (example: BD at blank; Gold at blank; etc...) 

- I reject the premise of the question to the extent it “requires” indoor, air conditioned rehearsal space.  The most likely rehearsal locations are the same as for any show:  whichever high school field they can get access to, whether in Vegas, St. George 2 hours away, or some other nearby town.  Again, if there is an indoor venue, even if nothing more than a fieldhouse at a high school (if large enough), that’s great but imho not mandatory in the same way it’s not mandatory in Mesa, Houston, or anywhere else.  

Since you wanted me to answer your questions, I have a few of my own for you:

1. I rhetorically asked if the show in Mesa, AZ should be cancelled since it’s actually a little hotter on average there, and the question was sidestepped with “I am not saying a night show in Mesa is the problem.”  Let’s try again:  Should the DCI show in Mesa, AZ which is outdoors with outdoor rehearsals be cancelled since it seems to fall into your weather danger zone?  Yes or no?  Why or why not?

2. Do you have evidence that the show in Mesa, or any show in the inland empire in SoCal like Riverside where it can get hot with low humidity, has caused any more health problems than shows in more humid environments?  If yes, could the evidence be furnished for us all to view?

3. Should DCI cancel shows or ban corps from rehearsing in other areas, including but not limited to Texas, Louisiana, etc. which have nearly equal and in some cases higher heat indexes with humidity factored in?

4. Since you are adamant that if a show is held in Las Vegas, the corps be provided with air conditioned rehearsal space, could you provide documentation (emails, copies of letters, etc) demanding DCI, the competing corps, or show sponsors provide indoor, air conditioned rehearsal space with adequate viewing height AT EXISTING SHOWS in areas of Texas and the Deep South with heat indexes equal, are in excess, or are close to the heat index of Las Vegas?

5. If you cannot, why are you raising an issue about a show that doesn’t exist (yet) when you could raise consciousness of DCI and the competing corps with EXISTING SHOWS about heat-related rehearsal issues?

6. What do you believe is the maximum outdoor temperature and/or maximum outdoor heat index a corps should rehearse in? How was that number arrived at?

7. What penalties or sanctions would you impose on groups who rehearse outdoors at temperatures or heat indexes that are beyond what you deem is reasonable? 

8. You made a distinction several times between “humid” heat and “dry” heat, expressing concern about not being aware of the dangers of dry heat.  Should corps be banned from rehearsing outdoors when the humidity is below a certain percentage when factored with temperature, and if so, what is that percentage and how did you arrive at that number?

9. What penalties or sanctions would you impose on groups who do rehearse at humidity levels that are below what you think is reasonable (with temperature factored in)?

10. According to Wikipedia, Clark County, Nevada had an estimated population of over 2 million in 2015.  St. George, UT is one of the fastest growing areas of the US, with a metro area of over an estimated 150,000 in 2015 and is about 2 hours away.  Should DCI ignore a growing area with well over 2 million people, or attempt to nurture a fanbase to expand their footprint?

11. As has been pointed out in this thread, numerous high school bands in the Las Vegas area (and I may add, Arizona) have band camp/outdoor rehearsals in July and August.  It is reasonable to also assume The Academy rehearses outside in June and early July with triple digit temperatures.  Could you provide documentation verifying these Las Vegas and Arizona bands have higher rates of heat related illness than bands from other parts of the country?

12. If there is no evidence that bands from Las Vegas and Arizona (aka high temperature/low humidity states) who rehearse outdoors in July and August have verified higher rate of heat related illness than bands from anywhere else in the country, would you agree that it is possible to rehearse in these environments with adequate precautions?

13. Will anyone beat the Blue Devils this year?

Edited by wolfgang
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3 hours ago, Stu said:

I have helped find housing sites for many corps, and the higher placing the corps the more demands they have for rehearsal facilities.  Throughout the first half of this thread Ouooga kept pounding out that there are indoor facilities in the Vegas area that could handle dozens of corps with space enough for ‘full’ rehearsals.  The term ‘full’ to a Corps Director means that their full show can be rehearsed in its entirety indoors, which in turn means that the floor space is required to be football field sized.  So, if you read my question #3 that I posed to Wolfgang, since this was his thread and his idea, it was for Wolfgang to provide the names of the indoor facilities that can handle ‘full’ indoor rehearsal space.  All I did was to make sure everyone knows what ‘full’ means to a Corps Director when I injected football field sized floor.  Imagine the Cavaliers, BD, etc... booking an indoor facility, promised that it can accommodate a 'full' rehearsal, and then find out when they arrive that the floor space is only half the size needed for a 'full' rehearsal!!

By the way, fantasy would be if we were discussing the characters in the movie Avatar.  What we are discussing is the real possibility that youth would be engaging in extreme physical activity in extreme heat indexes, the cost to lease indoor facilities to get them out of that dangerous heat, the cost to lease a Pro Football Stadium, and the potential revenue that would be generated from a show at that stadium with the corps listed by Wolfgang.  That is not fantasy.

Also, I love Vegas; the nightlife; the shows on the Strip; etc... But I would never subject youth who are required to engage in physical exertion at the level of a WC corps to the excruciating daytime heat in Vegas in the middle of July or August. And for that, I am not sorry.

All I can say is "Intense" conversation, Stu. 

Funny thing about people who actually live in Las Vegas is that they discover that there's more to the area than just the Strip... .and much of it is actually outside.

I have faith that the corps staff would work around any inconvenience of rehearsing in a hot environment.   As I said, there's extreme heat in other parts of the country and corps practice in that. I know I'd much rather practice in High heat, low humidity (105) than 95 and high humidity ( think Texas, Louisiana, Atlanta)

I'm not a doctor, so I don't know which is worse.  High heat and low humidity or a little less high high with tons of humidity.  

I do know that member corps are not roofers who spend 40 hours a week on roof tops. They'd be out for a couple hours during ensemble rehearsals at most, then at the dome. After that, they'd be on their way to another venue. I am sure that there's been research on this topic, so I would guess the answers are out there. No, I'm not going to look it up.

....and this IS fantasy. I've not heard of any plan for a show or regional being held there. So, maybe our definitions of fantasy in this case are different.

Hopefully we all have had some good discussion, but I'm going to switch to something a little less intense.

 

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2 hours ago, wolfgang said:

After the original post pointing out the possible benefits of a show in what should be a new state-of-the-art facility in one of the fastest growing markets in the country, the discussion has degenerated into arguments about weather.  Stu wants his questions answered… I will answer the questions, though I think they are based on flawed reasoning.

#1) What do you realistically think will be the lease-rate charged to DCI to have the show located at the new Raiders Pro Stadium? 

-If the people that run the stadium want dates so it’s not sitting idle in July, they can negotiate a rate with DCI the same way Indy, San Antonio, Buffalo, Meadowlands, (hopefully) Atlanta, and others do that works for both parties.

#2) Considering the ten corps you listed on the marque, how much net, not gross, but net profit do you think DCI will garner from ticket sales at a show being held at that Pro stadium? 

-You could ask the same question about any other large venue DCI uses.  I would bet they have a chance to make more money than in Indy (no, not Finals.. I'm referring to the 5 or 6 corps June preview show at LOS that draws nowhere near as many spectators).

#3) Someone in this thread stated that there are indoor facilities in the Vegas area large enough to handle 'full' rehearsals; can you please name the indoor facilities that are in the Vegas area which can provide indoor floor space large enough for those full rehearsals? 

-Since I never mentioned indoor rehearsal space, it is not a question I need to answer.  I would be fine with the corps rehearsing outdoors, just the same way one or more do every year while passing through Vegas, and as numerous bands do.  If the show ever does materialize and ouooga is able to help secure indoor rehearsal space, that’s a bonus but imho not a necessity.  Somebody provided a pretty good list of facilities on another reply.

#4) Corps have to pay hefty costs for rehearsal/housing sites like schools, and they are very hard to book.  While BD can pretty much afford any rehearsal site they want, Gold and Battalion tour on peanuts and need way lower-cost facilities.  Understanding that each corps needs a football field sized area with upper vantage points for staff, and that neither Gold nor Battalion can afford the same high-rate facilities as BD, what are the locations most likely to be rehearsal sites for each corps?  (example: BD at blank; Gold at blank; etc...) 

- I reject the premise of the question to the extent it “requires” indoor, air conditioned rehearsal space.  The most likely rehearsal locations are the same as for any show:  whichever high school field they can get access to, whether in Vegas, St. George 2 hours away, or some other nearby town.  Again, if there is an indoor venue, even if nothing more than a fieldhouse at a high school (if large enough), that’s great but imho not mandatory in the same way it’s not mandatory in Mesa, Houston, or anywhere else.

Response to your A1) Any show consisting of 4 – 5 corps, or the line-up you mentioned previously, would likely not draw in enough paying fan support to justify leasing out an entire pro stadium.  San Antonio and Atlanta, both pro stadium venues, are DCI Regional Events with all of the WC; around 25 corps in competition.

Response to your A2) DCI has a special multi-year deal they drafted with Lucas Oil Stadium which they penned as it was being built; DCI had a hand in consulting while it was being built; DCI also has a sweet deal with the city of Indy for their offices being located there; and thus DCI gets a Huge discount on the lease of that stadium. There is no way on this earth that a show lineup like you proposed occurring in Vegas would pull in anywhere close to the amount of revenue, less expenses of leasing out the new pro stadium, than Indy does even in their preview show.

Response to your A3 and A4) You may be fine with people engaging in extreme physical exertion over many hours in ambient temps of 106* and heat index of close to 120*, and where the radiating heat off the turf can be 15* higher than that!!!  But the medical community, and of course myself, am against that behavior; according to the NWS any and all physical activity outside, except in emergency situations, should cease when the heat index is over 110*.  As for the list provided by someone else of possible indoor rehearsal sites, only a very few of them could accommodate ‘full’ and complete corps rehearsals.

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2 hours ago, wolfgang said:

Since you wanted me to answer your questions, I have a few of my own for you:

1. I rhetorically asked if the show in Mesa, AZ should be cancelled since it’s actually a little hotter on average there, and the question was sidestepped with “I am not saying a night show in Mesa is the problem.”  Let’s try again:  Should the DCI show in Mesa, AZ which is outdoors with outdoor rehearsals be cancelled since it seems to fall into your weather danger zone?  Yes or no?  Why or why not?

2. Do you have evidence that the show in Mesa, or any show in the inland empire in SoCal like Riverside where it can get hot with low humidity, has caused any more health problems than shows in more humid environments?  If yes, could the evidence be furnished for us all to view?

3. Should DCI cancel shows or ban corps from rehearsing in other areas, including but not limited to Texas, Louisiana, etc. which have nearly equal and in some cases higher heat indexes with humidity factored in?

4. Since you are adamant that if a show is held in Las Vegas, the corps be provided with air conditioned rehearsal space, could you provide documentation (emails, copies of letters, etc) demanding DCI, the competing corps, or show sponsors provide indoor, air conditioned rehearsal space with adequate viewing height AT EXISTING SHOWS in areas of Texas and the Deep South with heat indexes equal, are in excess, or are close to the heat index of Las Vegas?

5. If you cannot, why are you raising an issue about a show that doesn’t exist (yet) when you could raise consciousness of DCI and the competing corps with EXISTING SHOWS about heat-related rehearsal issues?

6. What do you believe is the maximum outdoor temperature and/or maximum outdoor heat index a corps should rehearse in? How was that number arrived at?

7. What penalties or sanctions would you impose on groups who rehearse outdoors at temperatures or heat indexes that are beyond what you deem is reasonable? 

8. You made a distinction several times between “humid” heat and “dry” heat, expressing concern about not being aware of the dangers of dry heat.  Should corps be banned from rehearsing outdoors when the humidity is below a certain percentage when factored with temperature, and if so, what is that percentage and how did you arrive at that number?

9. What penalties or sanctions would you impose on groups who do rehearse at humidity levels that are below what you think is reasonable (with temperature factored in)?

10. According to Wikipedia, Clark County, Nevada had an estimated population of over 2 million in 2015.  St. George, UT is one of the fastest growing areas of the US, with a metro area of over an estimated 150,000 in 2015 and is about 2 hours away.  Should DCI ignore a growing area with well over 2 million people, or attempt to nurture a fanbase to expand their footprint?

11. As has been pointed out in this thread, numerous high school bands in the Las Vegas area (and I may add, Arizona) have band camp/outdoor rehearsals in July and August.  It is reasonable to also assume The Academy rehearses outside in June and early July with triple digit temperatures.  Could you provide documentation verifying these Las Vegas and Arizona bands have higher rates of heat related illness than bands from other parts of the country?

12. If there is no evidence that bands from Las Vegas and Arizona (aka high temperature/low humidity states) who rehearse outdoors in July and August have verified higher rate of heat related illness than bands from anywhere else in the country, would you agree that it is possible to rehearse in these environments with adequate precautions?

13. Will anyone beat the Blue Devils this year?

A1) I have already stated that I am against having any corps rehearse outside at all during the day in Mesa where the heat index is always around 115* to 120* and the heat radiating from the turf is much higher than that. And while I would not cancel shows in places like Dallas, if the heat index was as high as it is in Mesa I would also advocate they youth staying inside while the heat index is at that extreme.

A2) While there are no formal records that have been released by DCI or various corps I can point to many, many incidents that I and others have seen where youth went down due to heat related issues in environments that have heat indexes like those which occur in Mesa.  An example is the 2011 TOC show in Texas when the heat index was at or near 120*.  To my knowledge nobody has died, but there have been many heat exhaustion issues and a few heat strokes in places where the heat index is that of Mesa during the summer.

A3) In my opinion DCI and the corps should not place youth outside in conditions where the heat index is at or above what the medical community deems as dangerous.

A4) As it applies to rehearsals, while some of the top corps tour with certified medical staff many other corps do not; basically because they cannot afford to pay that staff.  Most corps have volunteer first aid workers; many with little to no real medical experience.  As for shows, DCI is legally required to have an ambulance and EMT personnel on site, but I have yet to see DCI show enough concern for the health of the youth to cancel a show due to heat.  However, they will cancel due to lightning even though the NWS stats show that 33 people on average die each year from lightning while over 600 people die on average each year from heat related injuries.

A5) DCI may not listen to me, and neither may you; but that does not hold me back from voicing my true concern for the health of anyone who is required to exhibit extreme physical acts in heat indexes in which the medical community deems as dangerous.

A6) NWS states that people should limit physical activities outside in heat index over 100*, do very little physical exertion outside in heat index over 105*, and avoid any physical exertions whatsoever, except in emergency situations, in heat index over 110*.

A7) Any penalties or sanctions would be up to DCI.  But if I was a Corps Director I would place the potential health risks to the youth in my charge above what I might lose as a result of a lost outside rehearsal or dropping out of a show where my youth would have to perform in heat index over 110+*.  And please remember that the temperature radiating from the turf is much higher.

A8) Heat index is a combination of ambient temperature plus humidity.  However, wet humid heat is sticky and makes you ‘feel’ miserable whereas dry heat gives the illusion that it does not ‘feel’ that hot; which in turn makes dry heat more dangerous because the mask of ‘feeling ok’ is there in dry heat.

A9) Again it is up to DCI to create any penalties.

A10) DCI is always looking for ways to reach audiences it normally does not reach.  Since this is an activity which performs in the summer, and Vegas is above the dangerous heat index level according to NWS and the medical community, corps could perform inside with Blast type performances as invites to shows on the Strip.

A11) I have no formal data, but I can say that the intelligent band directors that I have worked with in the South all pull their kids inside from around 10:00am to around 7:00pm when the heat index gets into the dangerous range.  And I would not personally work with a director which placed kids outside, on the turf, on the parking lot, in conditions where the heat index is at dangerous levels; I would consider that director stupid and reckless.

A12) Well, since the Bridgemen are no longer around, if the Bluecoats would bring back The Boxer they might now be able to beat ‘the physical tar’ out of BD! :fight:

Edited by Stu
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3 hours ago, Stu said:

As for shows, DCI is legally required to have an ambulance and EMT personnel on site, but I have yet to see DCI show enough concern for the health of the youth to cancel a show due to heat.  However, they will cancel due to lightning even though the NWS stats show that 33 people on average die each year from lightning while over 600 people die on average each year from heat related injuries.

Just because you have not seen it, does not mean it never happened.  Shows have been stopped, or in at least one case, cancelled due to high heat index.  Several shows with high heat indices have had delayed starts specifically to take advantage of evening cooling.

Also, for full clarity, DCI does not simply cancel shows due to lightning.  The idea is to wait a certain amount of time for the lightning threat to move out of the area, then continue the show.  If the threat remains long enough to prevent completion of the event, then the show is cancelled.  Of course, in practice, lightning is often accompanied by pouring rain, which creates other reasons for delay or cancellation depending on field conditions. 

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