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What is the relationship between DCI and the individual corps?


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25 minutes ago, ouooga said:

Has that ever caused any negatives in terms of relationships? Or are most show promoters fine with it because it's just the way it is?

 Sure. I've sat on the board of a former DCI show that negotiated with DCI.  So I know the intricacies involved in the negotiation. DCI set the terms. We would accept them or reject them. For many years we did, but then we felt our  time and expenses oustripped our financial returns. It happens... there were no bad feelings in the end with us or DCI.  DCI has a base of show sponsors that are run by DCI Corps themselves, and others that have had shows for decades. DCI then has a group of new sponsors that will undertake the enormous work that goes into hosting a show. Some will repeat, others won't.. for any number of reasons. But DCI pretty much sets the terms and calls the shots if a potential organization decides they'd like to sponsor a DCI show. Hope this info helps you that comes from a poster that has actually been directly involved in hosting a DCI show in the past.

Edited by BRASSO
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2 hours ago, garfield said:

 Each show host is charged a fee for each corps in its lineup, making up a contracted amount that must be paid prior to the show date.

 

Dumb question here, perhaps... and an indication of how far out of the loop I am in general... LOL...

What is the "pay scale" for DCI corps?  Is it a revenue-sharing "everyone's paid the same" model, or a weighted "tier" model?

I'm asking about World Class here.  I understand Open Class is a different situation, at least in Open Class-only shows.

Edited by Fran Haring
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31 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Dumb question here, perhaps... and an indication of how far out of the loop I am in general... LOL...

What is the "pay scale" for DCI corps?  Is it a revenue-sharing "everyone's paid the same" model, or a weighted "tier" model?

 

' Not entirely sure what your personal definition of a "weighted tier model " is, but if its what I think it is, then Yes, Corps are guaranteed up front payments in the contract with show sponsors for certain Corps... and as one would naturally expect, the upfront guarantee to have  ( for example ) the Blue Devils agree to appear in your show, is going to be higher than to secure the agreement from ( for example ) the Oregon Crusaders to appear in your show. Sometimes DCI would suggest a mix of Corps for show sponsor with a fee upfront of such a mix. This is why we oftentimes see Corps traveling together from show to show in a grouping mix, especially early in the season, as it makes financial sense for both DCI and the sponsors to coordinate it in this fashion logistically as well as financially.

Edited by BRASSO
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16 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Dumb question here, perhaps... and an indication of how far out of the loop I am in general... LOL...

What is the "pay scale" for DCI corps?  Is it a revenue-sharing "everyone's paid the same" model, or a weighted "tier" model?

I'm asking about World Class here.  I understand Open Class is a different situation, at least in Open Class-only shows.

There are several from what I understand.

The Appearance Fee (based on previous year's placement and shows performed in that competitive year)

The TOC payout (based on number of TOC shows performed in a year)

The Championship Placement Fee?

Or, The Participation Payout (based on years in DCI - $/years and total pay for years in DCI?

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3 hours ago, BRASSO said:

  Hope this info helps you that comes from a poster that has actually been directly involved in hosting a DCI show in the past.

Hey, I never thought of this to add credibility!  Great idea!  OK if I use it, too?  :whistle:

2 hours ago, BRASSO said:

' Not entirely sure what your personal definition of " tier model " is, but if its what I think it is, then Yes, Corps are guaranteed up front payments in the contract with show sponsors for certain Corps... and as one would naturally expect, the upfront guarantee to have  ( for example ) the Blue Devils agree to appear in your show, is going to be higher than to secure the agreement from ( for example ) the Oregon Crusaders to appear in your show.

This from a poster who is currently, and has been for over a decade, directly involved with hosting a DCI WC show...

Potential show host:  "We'd like to run a WC show."

DCI:  "How much do you have to spend to get corps to your stadium?"

PSH: "We think we can cover a contract of $xxx."

DCI:  "Here's the list of 6 corps for your show and the total cost is below your contract limit."

PSH:  "But there's not a single top-12 corps in our show!  Our highest placement was 12th!  We can't sell tickets to that show."

DCI: (literally) "That's your lineup if you want it. Take it or leave it."

PSH:  "Can I trade these two for just one top-12 corps?"

DCI:  "Contracts are not negotiable, but you can change your date to earlier in the season to lower the cost."

PSH:  "But the football team is in the stadium..."

DCI:  "Umm......."

What corps are paid per performance is a function of their placement in the prior year and at what point in the tour your show is taking place.  There are, essentially, four tiers of prior year placement in the pricing, and early-season shows are less expensive than late-season shows.  As an example, we generally have 3 or 4 top-12 and 2 or 3 from 13 on down.  This year we are especially pleased to have Pacific Crest and Seattle Cascades in our show, along with Bluecoats, Crossmen, and several others.  Our show is July 31st, so we pay a premium to have a show.  It's been fairly common that a similar show has cost us $28,000 plus or minus, in the past.

Again, show hosts are not permitted to negotiate with corps on either schedule or cost.  And there's no "guarantee".  As DCI has said to us many times, "You're paying for a lineup" and, if the host doesn't pay the contract prior to the show, the show is cancelled and the corps don't perform but the host still owes the contract price.  The only way a show can be cancelled is if the DCI administrator at the show declares the weather so bad that not even a stand-up on the track by one corps cannot be performed.  If that standup is done in a drizzle to a nearly empty stadium, the full contract price is due.

EDIT:  As one might imagine, this incongruity of show host has been a point of contention in the past, specifically as part of the G7 plan which did away entirely with the local TEP hosting scheme.  Of the about 106 or 107 shows, 55 to 60 are run by either DCI or the corps.  The other 50 or so shows are run by shows whose profit does not, necessarily, help drum corps.  Those profits help the, typically, schools that take the risk and pay the contract, then get their music programs involved to sell the event all over their community.  The music program gets the profits from the show.  Besides the contract payments, if the show does better and makes more money, the corps don't get any of that extra, the music programs do.  Forty-five drum corps shows all across the country, and about that same number of drum corps mostly congested into general areas. 

Another very real issue is the incongruity of the message when DCI has 100 different "music games" going on each summer.  

But those are usually the actual, local touch that DCI has with the communities, 45 or so of them, that host drum corps shows as TEPs.  Five, eight, ten bands all pre-sold by the local host band...that hundreds, maybe thousands, of direct contacts that drum corps has with schools that they get nowhere else.  

IMO, the notion that the existing corps would be able to replace TEP hosts is not feasible.  And, while its true that George can sell them tickets to our show from Allentown, he loses the greatest proponent he has - the local band host looking to make a profit for his music program.  

I, frankly, have no idea where that spiel came from but, now that I've said it, I'll return to work.

 

 

 

Edited by garfield
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 There is nothing in my comments above that is at odds with anything that garfield is stating here.. lol!. Not that I can tell anyway.  Methinks then that some posters just like to either argue for the sake of arguing or they post to simply hear themselves post... haha!  But seriously, I don't disagree with anything from garfield here about how show sponsors and DCI organize contractual agreements for shows. And I'm really not even sure what I said on here today on this thread about DCI and the shows that he is in disagreement with. So I really don't have any idea what the fuss here is all about today from garfield on this thread. Oh well.

Edited by BRASSO
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21 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 There is nothing in my comments above that is at odds with anything that garfield is stating here.. lol!. Not that I can tell anyway.  Methinks then that some posters just like to either argue for the sake of arguing or they post to simply hear themselves post... haha!  But seriously, I don't disagree with anything from garfield here about how show sponsors and DCI organize contractual agreements for shows. And I'm really not even sure what I said on here today on this thread about DCI and the shows that he is in disagreement with. So I really don't have any idea what the fuss here is all about today from garfield on this thread. Oh well.

No fuss, no muss, Brasso.  Just refining the statements so the OP gets the info he was looking for.  Other than your insinuation that there is some sort of negotiation between show hosts and DCI, we're pretty much on the same track.  

I'm also connected with a WC corps that hosts a very big show out west and I see that DCI charges them the same that they charge us (a non-corps TEP) to hold a show.

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35 minutes ago, garfield said:

What corps are paid per performance is a function of their placement in the prior year and at what point in the tour your show is taking place.  There are, essentially, four tiers of prior year placement in the pricing, and early-season shows are less expensive than late-season shows.  As an example, we generally have 3 or 4 top-12 and 2 or 3 from 13 on down.  This year we are especially pleased to have Pacific Crest and Seattle Cascades in our show, along with Bluecoats, Crossmen, and several others.  Our show is July 31st, so we pay a premium to have a show.  It's been fairly common that a similar show has cost us $28,000 in the past.

 

 

On a $28k cost (plus other overhead I'm guessing) can you share what the ROI is?

 

Wait, I just thought about it further. Who receives the ticket fees? 100% the show promoter, or is it split 50/50 with DCI? If the latter, DCI really charges for the corps and still gets a cut of revenue? Also if the latter, does the corps' money come from the DCI cut, or is it more complicated than even that?

Edited by ouooga
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1 hour ago, ouooga said:

 

 

On a $28k cost (plus other overhead I'm guessing) can you share what the ROI is?

Well, it's so variable I'd be hesitant.  Our show has never been six digits, but it's been 5-digits of profit.  Our worst year was low 5-digits.  (EDIT: No, our worst year was our second; lost a couple thousand dollars for a lot of effort and 1 day of bad rain all week.)

But, time, corps, weather...  so many variables...  Our goal is always to have the contract covered by presale tickets so, if it rains (rain in Ohio in July?  Really?), we know that DCI gets paid.

 

Edited by garfield
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